Shhhhh! Our secret is spreading!

[CardCuda]

Last night and a previous session this week two different players (terrible players at that). Have been discussing and recommending this site openly at the tables. "Go to 2+2, what's 2+2, 3 players reply, go to twoplustwo.com read all the poker info you want, post hands etc....!

Ack! Any one else see this. As I fear our competition will get tougher, and I don't want to be greedy (ok yes I do). We should let everyone do their own homework sort of speak to find this site to better their play. Agreed or disagreed? How does one deal with an obvious "newbie" spreading the word?

I know advertising is great for this site, and you can find the address on any 2+2 book. But I'd rather play versus the players that read Hoyle or Poker for Dummies!

[scotnt73]

the ones who want to learn will learn. the one who dont wont. we all found this sight. it isnt hidden. there will always be plenty of fish.

[bernie]

i think many of the players who may come here wont put in the work required to get good. they wont take the time to keep up with all the threads. thus not finding the cookie cutter solution theyll get tired of it. they may browse for a month or 2, see how hard it actually is to keep up on it, then leave with little retention of what they may have read.

everyone wants to play good 'now'. not study. look at what happens when new posters come in who go on their first great run. brag about it, then hit a wall. they usually leave when reality brings them back to earth.

im just dreading all of the 'how do you beat loose players' questions that will be coming again and making the rounds soon. i know kong cant wait for them either.

b

[AviD]

Good points bernie! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I've been pretty silent for the last couple months, as I've taken a quiet and observative approach to learning from others on here...and by playing and reading a heck of alot.

I have a ways to go, but improvement comes with time and dedication...most won't put one of those in and you need both to be a winning player IMO.

Only time will tell how I make out, but I'll keep you all posted as I progress! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I also hear the 2+2 thrown around here and there...but not too much. Most everyone that hears it has no idea what it is...good thing I say! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

EDIT: I should also add that I've hit the rush...and ran right into a wall, sliding down the whole way. I've backed off and dropped to lower limits, within my BR and am building up slowly...and patiently. That's primarily what caught my eye in your post, was the "wall"...because it hurt like hell when I hit it! *OUCH* LOL

[Styles]

I think from the amount of "I've read HEP and TOP and I'm still losing threads" we know that simply knowing about 2+2 and/or reading the books is not enough for even most players.

Also, I'm seeing alot of them read Phil's book because afterall he wins all the Tourneys on TV /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
everyone wants to play good 'now'. not study

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. Just like a lot of people want to eat 'now', not cook. Cook books and cooking shows have risen just when people dine out (or carry out) more often.

Casinos have lost money to card counters but they still offer BJ because the house makes more than enough to cover that loss from people who simply think "the game is beatable" without actually honing the skills to beat it.

Similarly, tell 10 people "you can win at Poker by learning from 2+2". Say half won't care, half will. Of the five that do buy books and so on, maybe 1 reads and studies. The others vaguely remember a couple things but continue poor play. But now there are five players who feel more encouraged to play, only one of which has reason to feel more confident.

Plus 2+2 sells more books.

[aas]

I think you should not worry about players who hear about this site a the poker tables. Those players do not read books!! (or they would have know 2+2).

Players who are making or will make the competition tougher are the ones who study books line by line, and by the time they get to the cover, looking for more, find www.twoplustwo.com. (http://www.twoplustwo.com.)

Furthermore, 2+2 is helpful only to a minority of the readers. The ones who advertise the site in poker rooms are not included in this category, nor are the ones hearing about the site.

As you can see, I am myself very new to this site, although I have been using it for a while.

By the way, thank you to all posters.

[peacemaker]

I agree with most of the posts here. No matter how many times a you show a fish the worm has a hook in it he will still go after it.

Most people are just too lazy to put in the work it takes. They want to win the WSOP now.

I really get intrested in poker about a year ago. I have spent this past year reading and studing every poker book I could get my hand on. I come here everyday and read for a couple of hours and of course I palyed with play money. Finally last month I made my first $50 deposit at Stars and am taking my time at the micros to build my bankroll. I haven't hit the wall yet and I'm over $125 now. I'll let you know when I see the wall though...LOL

[umdpoker]

i think this is the same as educating players at the table. you shouldn't do it. but it isn't the end of the world. if somebody gets excited about something, they will tell people they know. i have been on this site for a couple months and i am still having trouble beating 2/4. i still blame it on terible terrible cards, but i also admit that there are some adjustments that you must make for each table the higher you go. you have to THINK to beat some people and plan ahead for each hand. to be honest, some people aren't smart enough to understand the theory behind poker. some people don't care. and some people, even given the knowledge, are not patient enough to wait for premium cards(this is my category sometimes). there will always be gamblers willing to lose money for the excitement of risking money to make money. lottery mentality will never die.

[colgin]

A lot of people made the accurate point that many new players who find this site simply won't want to put in the work to keep up with the posts here and do the additional reading that is necessary to improve. A related point is that a lot of new players simply will not want to follow the correct advice they are being given to improve the game because it goes against the way that they want to play. How many times have you seen someone ask a non-controversial question on this site, get excellent responses that are in unanimity from some of the best posters here, and then argue tooth and nail why their view is better. People are not going to like a lot of the basic advice that they will get. Fold more hands pre-flop. "But that's boring." Don't chase without the odds. "But I might win on the river anyway." You can lead a horse to water as they say.

[AviD]

LOL funny you say that...I was thinking of my buddy that played for the first time this weekend with me and caught more cards in our 13 hour session than I have in my last 130!

He essentially played everything, ignored everything I tried to teach him...but won. Can't argue with success, but I tried to explain to him the "odds" in some of his won (not winning) hands...but he didn't want to hear it.

Some just like to play the way they play (gamble), even if it isn't winning play. I wish my buddy the best of luck, but I have a feeling he thinks every session is going to be like his first.

[bernie]

then of course when they do come here and see that phil isnt on here, they would say it sucks.

i think phil's book may be more popular than 2+2's stuff. though i dont know the numbers, it seems many more are following his advice rather than seeing tougher play.

but after all, who's to argue about phil's book? he's a winner isnt he? what's S&M ever won? that may sum up some of their thought process'.

b

[bernie]

sometimes ya hit the wall, shake your head and stand up just in time as the wall falls over on ya. those are the fun streaks. /images/graemlins/grin.gif if the wall doesnt kill you, it will make your game stronger.

keep going and youll do fine.

b

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of people made the accurate point that many new players who find this site simply won't want to put in the work to keep up with the posts here and do the additional reading that is necessary to improve. A related point is that a lot of new players simply will not want to follow the correct advice they are being given to improve the game because it goes against the way that they want to play. How many times have you seen someone ask a non-controversial question on this site, get excellent responses that are in unanimity from some of the best posters here, and then argue tooth and nail why their view is better. People are not going to like a lot of the basic advice that they will get. Fold more hands pre-flop. "But that's boring." Don't chase without the odds. "But I might win on the river anyway." You can lead a horse to water as they say.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. And I would add that a little knowlege is a dangerous thing. Let em get a little tighter but chase too much, or start folding when they shouldn't, or interpret aggressive as "bluff your ass off"...etc etc etc.

I welcome people to this site or any other tool that they use to "educate" themselves because quite frankly, I don't think most people will actually learn themselves into winning players. But let them think they know what they're doing....

--Zetack

[trillig]

Just remember, lot's of things used by good+ poker players is not something you can just READ.

I now own 12 poker books, they are no substitute for playing.... but required reading for the serious player, sure.... but only a small fraction of us take it this far, IMO.

+you can't get any smarter.... experience is the best teacher as usual...

I had a table full of fish tonite... I got a remedial class in bad poker 101, but I did rather well, I left shortly after the worst player, ie. BANKER, left.

So in closing.... LET EM READ!

YOU STILL HAVE TO GET GOOD RUN OF CARDS TO WIN! (and very lucky a few times in tournaments)

-t

[Norm]

[ QUOTE ]

Let em get a little tighter but chase too much, or start folding when they shouldn't, or interpret aggressive as "bluff your ass off"...etc etc etc.

--Zetack

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you guys think the biggest mistakes people who are seriously trying to learn continue to make, perhaps without realizing their leak?

I probably fall in this category.

[Joe Tall]

Yes, the 2+2 word is spreading and I think it's great. I've seen so many posters come and go. So many go broke. So many complain that they get 6 cold callers holding AA, etc.

Put it this way, CardCuda, you've been on 2+2 for a bit right?

Well, I think I can drum up a 5/10 home game w/JTG51, Homer, CrackZack, MaxPower, Barry, and myself. Want to play?

My point being that the above mentioned have played and played. They sure don't continue to play because they lose. They sure do win because they continue to work on their games.

In fact, I don't think I'd even want to play.

I hope that you all here can continue to work on your games, responding, posting, learning and making adjustments. I keep adjusting all the time, as I admitted to in the infamous "Quiz" post of Festus22. I hope you all do to.

Peace,
Joe Tall