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waveball
01-20-2004, 01:12 PM
First of all I am an agressive player and am controlling the table. Then this hand came up. Just wondering if I could have done anything different with this hand. Thanks!

PokerStars Game #252378600: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2004/01/20 -
00:39:43 (ET)
Table 'Janina' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: majik4372 ($40.35 in chips)
Seat 2: geoffreyl ($188.85 in chips)
Seat 3: taxi573 ($96.20 in chips)
Seat 4: Lotsa Leaks ($103.90 in chips)
Seat 5: jusme ($64.20 in chips)
Seat 6: Toxic ($9 in chips)
Seat 7: waveball ($204.70 in chips)
Seat 8: MR.WIZZ ($122.30 in chips)
Seat 9: Goose75 ($8.80 in chips)
taxi573: posts small blind $0.50
Lotsa Leaks: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to waveball [Kc Ts]
waveball said, "nh"
jusme: folds
Toxic: folds
waveball: raises $3 to $4
MR.WIZZ: calls $4
Goose75: folds
majik4372: folds
geoffreyl: calls $4
taxi573: folds
Goose75 said, "damn you toxic took me out of my game"
Lotsa Leaks: folds
*** FLOP *** [Ks Td Kh]
waveball: checks
MR.WIZZ: checks
geoffreyl: checks
*** TURN *** [Ks Td Kh] [Jd]
waveball: bets $5
Goose75 said, "actually no one to blame but myself"
MR.WIZZ: calls $5
geoffreyl: calls $5
*** RIVER *** [Ks Td Kh Jd] [Ah]
waveball said, "that was a tough hand"
waveball: bets $20
MR.WIZZ: calls $20
geoffreyl: raises $20 to $40
waveball: raises $20 to $60
Goose75 said, "yeah i wasn't thinking, had set written all over it"
MR.WIZZ: folds
geoffreyl: raises $20 to $80
Toxic said, "i think raising the over card was a mistake in it self"
waveball: raises $20 to $100
geoffreyl: raises $79.85 to $179.85 and is all-in
waveball: calls $79.85
*** SHOW DOWN ***
geoffreyl: shows [As Ad] (a full house, Aces full of Kings)
waveball: shows [Kc Ts] (a full house, Kings full of Tens)
geoffreyl collected $405.20 from pot

crockpot
01-20-2004, 01:52 PM
on the preflop raise, if you thought it was a good play, i'm not going to argue with you. you were there and i wasn't.

i would usually bet on the flop, as much as i thought a gutshot draw would call. remember, there aren't many free cards that can fall to make someone like their hand here. so you may as well charge whatever draws are out. this goes double for the turn when more straight possibilities emerge.

as for the river play, i don't particularly like this series of min-raising, but whatever floats your boat. once you are four-bet, though, you can no longer raise for value against a rational player. min-raising you twice is very suspicious and i would expect him to turn over AK or AA. against a straightforward player i would fold when he makes it $80, though online it is hard to be that sure that your opponent is sane. at any rate i wouldn't reraise him there.

The Dude
01-20-2004, 02:31 PM
For me, it's close between betting the flop and checking. It will depend on my table image. If it looks like I've been stealing a lot, then I'll bet, hoping to get called and show. If it looks like I've been playing more passively (or if my opponent is aggressive), then I'll check-call the flop and check-raise the turn. This is very opponent and situation dependant, and I think if I had no reads on any players, I would probably bet modestly, not check.

If you're going to check the flop, you have to go for a check-raise on the turn. If these players are even half-way aggressive you could get a nice bet here. If you're going to slowplay, then slowplay. Don't give up too early.

The river was played awfully in my opinion. He min-raises into a bettor and a caller on a board like that! If that's not a baiting play, I don't know what is. You can be 90% sure he's not bluffing, since he would have to raise a LOT higher to bluff a bettor AND a caller (if you know this to be a decent player, then you can be 100% sure). It's possible he's raising with straight, but after he 4-bets you there's no way. What are you hoping to gain by 5-betting for the minimum?

Theoretically possible hands you are good against: TT, JJ, QQ. Hands you lose to: AA, AK. His min-raises certainly look like he doesn't fear a re-raise, and only AA and AK fit that. I probably would have just called his first raise. My reasoning is if I raise, then get re-raised big, I have a very difficult decision.

One last thought... don't throw slowpaying out the window because of this hand. It is EXTREMELY rare when that scary a board will come when you do, and you should be able to induce a lot bluffs in most NL games.

Good luck!

One more thought after reading the post again: He just called your pre-flop bet with AA. That means he's caught on to your aggressiveness, and it's time to switch gears (after this hand, once you see the flop). He doesn't believe your raises anymore and is planning on trapping you. If you bet the flop (almost pot-sized), I think you get raised here, then you can go all-in here, where you're way ahead. Use this as a lesson of how important it is to switch gears against opponents that pay attention. I'm very aggressive like you say you are, and it took me awhile to learn to do that.

waveball
01-20-2004, 06:21 PM
Thanks alot guys. I am new to this site and after just a few weeks of reading the posts I am learning to thin the game much more. I agree i played the river horribly.