properr poker conduct

I love playing this game and winning by always playing with the highest level of integrity possible. i am concerned that the move i made at a table was improper but need clarification. I have watched high level tournament players contemplate a raising or fold but preparing their chips as if to bet but in reality they are searching for a tell from opponents yet to act.


I was playing a a 6/12 game with KQ offsuit with two opponents seeing the flop. What the flop was and the subsequent cards really dont matter. i was on a straight draw and bet the flop which caused one opponent to fold. The player in late position called. I bet the turn hoping to bluff her out of the pot and she called again. An ace hit the river. I contemplated continuing the bluff but rememebered she played A anything. As i was grabbing my chips and moving them to bet it was clear as she never bluffs that she was going to call. I never actually released my chips but when it was clear she was going to call i knew she rivered the Ace and i mucked.


Any problem with this.


thanks

This is something Mason would call a "visual cue." It's the other player's fault for beginning her calling motion out of turn. If she had not, you would have bet, and she could have called and won an extra bet...depending on whether the Ace hit her. I'm of the opinion that players who act or prepare to act out of turn are usually weaker players (really good players occasionally do this to pick up a tell, and that's why some cardrooms have rules that acting out of turn puts your chips in the middle.) Since it was your turn when you picked up your chips, I don't think you did anything wrong. Question...did you actually check to her so she could bet?


On a side note...one local casino I've played at has a "betting line" around the table. If chips in your hand cross this line, they go into the pot as if it was a bet or a call. This is intended to stop the behavior you're talking about.

yes i did check to her and she then showed her ace. Very weak player that i won some money from on Saturday. She was from colorado and had a limited amount of time to play so she was playing a lot of hands.


Thanks for input.

You should be cautious about moving your chips, as some casinos consider "any forward motion with chips in hand" to be a bet, and your action will be binding. Other than that, I would not consider what you did to be unethical. I often have stacks of chips, equal to a big bet each, that I am constantly shuffling in front of me. This way, it always looks like I "might" be about to bet or raise. When looking for tells or telegraphs, I might do something to make it look like I intend to bet, raise, or call, hoping an opponent yet to act might give some clue as to what they intend to do. However, I am careful not to do anything that might constitute a betting motion. I don't think it's unethical at all.

Dave wrote:

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When looking for tells or telegraphs, I might do something to make it look like I intend to bet, raise, or call, hoping an opponent yet to act might give some clue as to what they intend to do. However, I am careful not to do anything that might constitute a betting motion. I don't think it's unethical at all.

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Don't get me wrong about this, I do it too, but let's be real clear about what we do:


"..I might do something to make it look like I intend to bet, raise, or call.." --- "..I am careful not to do anything that might constitute a betting motion.."

^

which is paraphrased by: "I might pretend to bet, but I won't do anything that looks like betting". Huh?

Tring to bluff A-K on the river with only one weak caller. I picked up my chips to bluff but as soon as the other player reached for his, all I had to do was check. Now if a stronger played had done this, I may have continued with the bet. If you get information you can use honestly, then you should use it to your advantage.

An example might be to specifically count out the number of chips you need for a bet, or for a raise, or perhaps to stop shuffling my chips and hold my hand on them like I was getting ready to slide them into the pot. It could be anything except to make a forward motion with chips in my hand. Yet another tactic might be to make it look like I intend to fold.