what to do when an overpair falls

[DrewOnTilt]

Several times last night, I raised preflop with a big pair, only to have an overpair fall on the flop. This was in a loose PP game, with about 50% staying in for the flop. I'm never quite sure how to handle this situation.

Example: in the BB with pocket tens
MP raises
5 callers including me
Flop is AAx
MP bets
Two callers

Other example:
On the button with QQ
I raise
several callers
Flop is KKx
BB bets
called around to me

Many guys on this table were playing any ace and any king. I am aware, however, that the fact that two aces/two kings fell reduces the chance that anyone holds a singleton ace/king. I folded in both of these instances. On the KK flop I was right, as someone did in fact make trips. However, on the AA flop, the preflop raiser had raised with pocket 7s, and I folded the winner.

Please help with this!

[Ric]

I have a similar question to this. Say you flop top 2 pair, but all the cards are rather low (like 378). Obviously you bet out and play it fast, but then on the turn and the river Q's fall both times, counterfeiting your pair of 7s. Should you still play as fast? Or should you slow down some?

[triplc]

I think the main factors are the size of the pot and the read on your opponents. Sure, people might be playing any A or any K, but not everyone. Some are folding those. And many people will play Qxs, T4o, and other such crap. Given that both of these pots are pretty big, I am going to play aggressively until someone give me reason not to, and then I am still likely to stay in unless I see pressure from many fronts.

In a big pot, you should stay in unless you are sure that you are beat. For example, you hold black aces but there are four hearts on the board and six players in. fold that baby. In these situations, there are only two cards out that beat you. I think you will find that you will win enough of these big pots to keep you ahead of the game. Keep in mind that you only need to win a fraction of these pots to make money in the long run.

CCC

[jdl22]

I would consider not raising preflop with these hands, especially pocket tens. With the tens there is a good chance of at least one overcard on the flop which can kill your hand. And as Sklansky points out in the loose games section of HEFAP others will pay you plenty when your hand is good (you make a set or three low cards flop), you will be happy you didn't put the money in when your hand is no good (your hands here), and if you keep the pot size down you're giving these bad players more opportunity to make mistakes (with a bigger pot calling stations are often playing correctly or close to it, with a small pot they are playing very poorly). What's more raising from such late position in the preflop betting will not eliminate many players which is the main point of preflop raising with lower pocket pairs like tens.

[Festus22]

I think in Hand 1 I'd check-raise and fold to a 3-bet.

Hand 2 could be played in a similar fashion by raising and then folding to a 3-bet.

If an absolute rock was making the bets here, folding might be OK but remember, if a pair flops, there's only a 8% chance per player that someone has trips. So it's more likely someone does NOT have the goods.

Edit: Link to the 8% number - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=probability&Number=353547& Forum=All_Forums&Words=3555&Match=Username&Searchp age=10&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=353547&Search=tr ue#Post353547

[BugsBunny]

Along with the other comments another thing you can try is raising or c/r (dependig on position) the flop. A lot of times people will bluff at a pair on the board.

If the raise is called, and you only have one opponent left then if he leads into you you can usually safely fold. If it's checked around to you then bet. If you act earlier then your opponent lead into her.

Again, if you get raised you can usually safely lay it down.

Note: See HEFAP "Playing when a pair flops". It talks about bluffing into a pair, but the same concepts can be used here. And if your "bluff" gets called then, assuming you decide to take it to showdown (for whatever reason), you have a real hand to showdown with.