Rules Scenario Debate

[Warik]

This came up at the local indian casino last night.

Heads up SB vs. Button on the river

SB bets $2.
Button raises to $4.
SB raises $6 and flips his cards prematurely showing a baby boat - threes full.

Button knows he has the nuts (kings full) and flips his cowboys.

SB immediately goes nuts and says "NO... YOU FOLDED. YOU DIDN'T CALL MY BET, YOU FOLDED."

Everybody including the dealer looks confused and then everybody on the table's confusion turns to anger against the whiner.

"You flipped your cards early, he knew he had you beat."

"NO! HE FOLDED. HE DIDN'T CALL MY BET"

"You didn't give him a chance to. You flipped your cards early before he could do anything."

"HE DIDN'T CALL IT. IT'S A FOLD."

"I didn't fold! I turned my cards over. I have kings full! Why would I fold that?"

Dealer calls the supervisor over.

After much debate SB insists that they split the pot and they eventually do... which I thought was BS and unfair.

So... who is entitled to the pot?

[CrackerZack]

actually, according to most rules, by exposing his hand before the action is complete, the whiner's hand is dead. I'd go ape-[censored] if they made me split this.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
actually, according to most rules, by exposing his hand before the action is complete, the whiner's hand is dead. I'd go ape-[censored] if they made me split this.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is nowhere in Las Vegas where the Small Blind's hand would be declared dead. This isn't a tournament hand.

The Button should have the option of folding, calling, or raising on the river.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
The Button should have the option of folding, calling, or raising on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

He did have the option even though the SB flipped his cards early. I've even seen situations where the last player to act presented a wide smile and re-raised after seeing that the opponent's prematurely flipped hand was junk.

The debate here was that the Button did not raise, call, or fold. He simply exposed his cards as well since he knew he had the nuts. The argument presented by the SB was that he didn't call or raise so therefore that means that he folded, even though he flipped his cards, not mucked.

During the table argument in which everybody was involved (including me, since I was losing that night I might as well have some fun this way), everybody was defending the Button. SB became the butt of the jokes for the remainder of my session as whenever the last to act flipped a superior hand the loser would say "YOU DIDN'T CALL MY BET. YOU FOLD!" and everybody would have a laugh.

I would have gone apeshit too. If I had kings full they're either giving me the whole pot or giving it to the SB and asking me to leave.

[mosch]

My understanding is that once it's heads up action, you can choose to expose your cards without killing your hand, thus both hands were live and the kings full should have an option of folding, calling or raising.

If somebody did this to me while I was holding the better hand, I'd try to figure out what would be viewed as the most suspicious thing I could do, and raise it. Maybe with some luck I could get three extra bets instead of just one /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Gahnia radula]

The supervisor should be shot in the head...worst decision ever

[CrackerZack]

[ QUOTE ]
This isn't a tournament hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand corrected. And this is the key point which didn't occur to me mentally. My bad.