'Winning Low Limit Hold 'em' by Lee Jones

In response to my recent post in the general hold ‘em forum, it was pointed out to me that HFAP targets only mid- and high-limit games, whereas low-limit games are generally played under very different conditions, HFAP therefore being an unsuitable publication if one desires to prepare oneself for such games. I was also advised to consult Mr Jones’ book instead. I am very grateful for that advice: what puzzles me a little, however, is the fact that reviews of that book, although generally benevolent, tend to concentrate on its outstanding qualities as an introductory book for beginners, its clarity of exposition and similar virtues; they do not really go out of their way to stress the fact that it treats subject matter not or only incompletely treated elsewhere (although Mr Christenson’s review, www.jetcafe.org/~npc/reviews/gambling, promises that ‘if you try to take these strategies to to a 30-60 game without alteration, you’re liable to get your clock cleaned’, but this is perhaps more of a reflection on the rudimentariness of the advice than on such a thing as thematic specialisation), and a review by a Mr Andy Latto (www.kimberg.com/poker/reviews.html) states quite literally, ‘Those who have already read Sklansky and Malmuth won’t find a lot that’s new here’.


Clearly these two opinions, Mr Latto’s opinion as expressed in the sentence just quoted, and the opinion that HFAP, on account of its bias, is unsuitable as mental preparation for a low-limit game, are irreconcilable; they cannot both be correct at the same time. So which of the two is correct? Or, to put it differently, is there any really valuable advice to be given about how to play in low-limit games that is given in Mr Jones’ book while it is definitely NOT given in HFAP (and if so, how much of the book is actually taken up by it)?

Lee Jones's book is designed for novices. Lee's purpose in writing his book was to help get novices into public cardrooms and give them their best chance of holding their own in low limit games. The last thing you want to see happen is for a neophyte to come into a public card room, sit down, quickly lose all of his money, and decide that the game is not fun or too expensive to play. If you are new to public poker and follow Lee's advice you will hold your own in low limit holdem games which are among the most popular in the country.


A novice would not understand HPFAP and should not be playing in the games HPFAP is addressing (that is $10-$20 through $40-$80).


I think that both Lee Jones and Lou Krieger have performed a valuable service in providing well-written, "user-friendly", introductory books that introduce beginners to the world of low limit holdem as played in a public cardroom.


To compare Lee Jones' book with HPFAP is like comparing an elementary school textbook on basic arithmetic with a college textbook on calculus. It is not a valid comparison. Both books do an admirable job of addressing the needs of their target audience. But they have a very different target audience.

I think the concepts covered in HPFAP are invariably correct for all but the toughest games. So, the problem is not that the information in HPFAP is incorrect for lower limits, but that the concepts within this book will likely be mis-used by a beginning player. The key is in being able to differentiate between varying situations and understanding when to apply one concept over another. A difficult task when one lacks the necessary table time and experience.


For this reason, I think TTOP is probably the best "first" book to read. Come to think of it, it's the best "last" and "inbetween" book to read as I'm still re-reading it and probably will for as long as I play poker. Once you start understanding the concepts of TOP, then HPFAP becomes a continuous read as well.

In the future, posts like this should go on our new Books/Software Forum. In fact, it might be best to repost this there.

"Lee Jones's book is designed for novices."


It clearly says it is not. In fact, on page 1 it says:


"Don't read this book if you'ver never played poker. If that's the case then we strongly urge you to buy Fundamentals of Poker by Mason Malmuth and Lynne Loomis or Poker for Dummies by Richard Harroch and Lou Krieger."


"Lee's purpose in writing his book was to help get novices into public cardrooms and give them their best chance of holding their own in low limit games."


Actually that was the purpose of the Fundamentals of Poker. (Sorry, I couldn't resist the plus.)

Actually, I think "novice" in this case refers to the concept of someone being new to the game of Hold'Em.


Page 1 does state:


"Read this book if ... [you] have never played hold'em and you'd like to give it a try."


Sounds like a novice to me.


Master Canfield

I am assuming that the player knows the rules of poker like knowing that a flush beats a straight and so forth. I am also assuming that the player has played some "kitchen table" poker or maybe played in some home games as opposed to playing in a casino or a public poker room.

One would think that after all the threads concerning Lee Jones's book, including one in which Mr. Jones participated, you would let one of these posts go once in a while.


As Jim said, it's a decent book, it addresses the game that the target audience will be playing and it doesn't scare people off with what some might consider "mumbo-jumbo" theory.


The truth is that it is very possible that the Jones book will not make someone a winner at low limit poker without additional study, but those who play low limit and lose will lose a lot less after reading this book. For the recreational player that is more than enough to let him enjoy the game.


It was a pretty good book, Mason. Stop moaning about everyone who says so.

Any book that instructs you to play much tighter than most of your opponents at the low limits will for sure allow you to win a little.