08-30-2001, 01:30 PM
6-12 game, first in in early middle position. I raise with A10s. 4 callers behind me (all of them) as well as the blinds. flop comes: (7 players, 14 small bets)
KJ5 with two of my suit.
I bet out at the flop. two calls and a raise, button (B) makes it three, and I cap, since I don't think I'll lose any of the callers here. (5 players, 34 small bets = 17 big bets)
turn is an offsuit 7
Check to B who bets, I call, next who Cold called on the flop (CC) raises, button three bets, whoa!! I figure, I'm up against set over set here. do I call?
I figure I have the nut flush draw, but the first flop raiser (FFR) probably has a flush draw as well (worst case scenario for me) and was raising for value on the flop, and the two turn raisers were probably on big hands (two sets?). in this case, I was drawing at 5 clean flush outs (9 minus the two in the other player's hand minus the two that pair the board), and three nut straight outs. I also figure that B will likely cap it, so my effectve odds, considering that I'll get three calls at the end If I hit a clean out are 30-3. I have to call here.
the rest of the hand is irrelavant, and I think I answered my own question. Suck it up and put the money out, right?
Anyway, I missed, (the board paired the jack w/o a flush). the two aggressors went four bets on the river and Kings full of jacks (CC flopped a set of kings) beat out Jacks full of kings(B flopped top two). FFR mucked on the river, confirming that he was on a draw.
A couple of questions that I may already have the answers to:
1) if the board pairs with a spade, do I call?
I don't think so. I check, CC will likely bet, and B will raise, so I'll muck. I may call if my call closes the action and it's one bet to me, but I really won't like it. I may even muck here.
2) If the board comes with a clean flush card, check or check raise?
i think I like a check here. If my read is correct FFR has the flush also, he will bet if it is checked to him. I can then check raise. The thing about this situation is that CC almost has to have a set, since he didn't come alive until the turn, and slow playing it here is consistant with his play. B probably has a set, but could be out of line with top two (which he was). If I check, B will call FFR's bet with either hand, then I can raise and CC with the set will probably call two with his big hand. If I bet out and get raised by FFR, B will call two with a set, but maybe not with top two. also, CC will call my original bet with his set, but may muck when it comes back to him at three bets.
3) If the river comes with my straight what do I do?
I like betting out here. granted, the straight card is not as threatening as the flush card, since I would have to have exactly what I did to be there with the gutshot draw, but I think that I can get CC and B to call what ever bets are out there if an off suit Q comes.
KJ5 with two of my suit.
I bet out at the flop. two calls and a raise, button (B) makes it three, and I cap, since I don't think I'll lose any of the callers here. (5 players, 34 small bets = 17 big bets)
turn is an offsuit 7
Check to B who bets, I call, next who Cold called on the flop (CC) raises, button three bets, whoa!! I figure, I'm up against set over set here. do I call?
I figure I have the nut flush draw, but the first flop raiser (FFR) probably has a flush draw as well (worst case scenario for me) and was raising for value on the flop, and the two turn raisers were probably on big hands (two sets?). in this case, I was drawing at 5 clean flush outs (9 minus the two in the other player's hand minus the two that pair the board), and three nut straight outs. I also figure that B will likely cap it, so my effectve odds, considering that I'll get three calls at the end If I hit a clean out are 30-3. I have to call here.
the rest of the hand is irrelavant, and I think I answered my own question. Suck it up and put the money out, right?
Anyway, I missed, (the board paired the jack w/o a flush). the two aggressors went four bets on the river and Kings full of jacks (CC flopped a set of kings) beat out Jacks full of kings(B flopped top two). FFR mucked on the river, confirming that he was on a draw.
A couple of questions that I may already have the answers to:
1) if the board pairs with a spade, do I call?
I don't think so. I check, CC will likely bet, and B will raise, so I'll muck. I may call if my call closes the action and it's one bet to me, but I really won't like it. I may even muck here.
2) If the board comes with a clean flush card, check or check raise?
i think I like a check here. If my read is correct FFR has the flush also, he will bet if it is checked to him. I can then check raise. The thing about this situation is that CC almost has to have a set, since he didn't come alive until the turn, and slow playing it here is consistant with his play. B probably has a set, but could be out of line with top two (which he was). If I check, B will call FFR's bet with either hand, then I can raise and CC with the set will probably call two with his big hand. If I bet out and get raised by FFR, B will call two with a set, but maybe not with top two. also, CC will call my original bet with his set, but may muck when it comes back to him at three bets.
3) If the river comes with my straight what do I do?
I like betting out here. granted, the straight card is not as threatening as the flush card, since I would have to have exactly what I did to be there with the gutshot draw, but I think that I can get CC and B to call what ever bets are out there if an off suit Q comes.