Advantage of youth.

This is really something I have notice more than it is advice on how to play hold'em. I have only been playing hold'em for about a year. And to most people that would make me seem very new to the game. Now true I am only 22 years old and I still make very stupid mistakes when playing. I find that if you are young and take the time to put in the hours at the tables. You can have a clear advantage over the older players. I love when I sit at a 3-6 table and older players automaticly think that i don't know what i am doing because i am constantly raising the pot. Just because I am young does not mean i have not taken a cosiderable amount of time to read books and study the game. I have won a significant amount of freerolls and and small entry tournaments so this just reminder to you older players who think us younger players are just raising for the fun of it. Keep in mind that people like Matt Damon and Ed Norton and the movie rounders have change the way us younger players see the game. I just wonder if any else shares this observation.

Many older players assume that young people are automatically fish. Part of this is their arrogance about their "wisdom and age", and some of it is the fact that a large number of young people ARE fish. Take advantage of any stereotype that someone puts upon you that is different from the truth. Do things to reinforce their incorrect beliefs about how you play. This will cause them to make more mistakes against you than if they were correctly putting you on your true style.


Dave in Cali

the majority of poker players are losing players.


take any subset not devised by poker playing ability,


i.e. white people, young people, people over 5'9" tall etc. and most of them will be losing players. not a surprise.

I'm 23 and I find being young can be helpful as far as image goes.


However, you sound like a dumb fuck when you start making references to "Rounders." Referencing that movie is so cliche and you sound like you don't know what you're talking about saying that movie has made young people better players. If anything, it has added to make people ignorant about poker and thinking that you can take over the world playing no limit poker. The story is a tale of tragedy because Mike never learns that he is trying to accomplish a fool's quest.


As for you Sham, spend more time playing and less time bragging. Me thinks you might not be as good as you think you are.

You call yourself Dan the man and accuse me of bragging. First of all I know what the movie is about. Second maybe I was out of line saying the movie has made young people better but when the movie stress the importance of tight aggressive play and shows examples of some the great books on poker. I don't think some young guy will go out trying to take over the world but I do think that it will make some one more inclined to pick up a book or practice before the play the game. It is ok that you disagree with me but you could also have some repect for this site instead of just blasting profanity. Who cares how good either of us are neither one of us has world series bracelets and we are not famous. You have your view and I have mind but lets not blast each other for seeing things differently.

There is more to life than being famous or having World Series bracelets. I do not believe that these things validate someone's life. So in that regards, I guess we have a difference of opinion.

I think it would be a good excercise for you to:


[1] Determine specific examples where this "advantage" works to your favor.


[2] Determine how you can proactively put these advantages to better use.


- Louie

I agree with you that many of us older players dismiss players because of their age. And this gives the younger player a big advantage when first entering a game. But remember that poker is largely a game of experience (esp. as you move up in limits). And this gives us older players an advantage. While the advent of books and later the internet has steepened the learning curve, nothing can replace thousands of hours playing and studying at the tables. As good as you play right now (and I'm sure you play very well), when you look back in a year or two you may be amazed at how much you have improved.


Good Luck

Well I'm 23, and although my youthful appearance may induce a loose call now and again, I think that it's a marginal advantage at best. I readily admit, I love being called "the kid" and having some players ask jokingly to see my ID since I didn't get caught at the door. Sometimes it's a disadvantage because some older players will bluff against me but no one else. I remember one pot I got bluffed out of by a local rock whom I've never EVER seen bluff (against me or anyone else.) Guess he thought he'd try to bluff the "sharpie kid" once, just to see what would happen. We were heads-up on the turn, he bet, I folded, and he turned'em over. What happened was his 3-2 Omaha nut low hand was good (I had middle pair, but I didn't feel good about it.) The senior citizens got a kick out of that....shoulda seen the look the old cuss gave me. "Take that, ya l'il bastard." Of course, the pot was so small I didn't care. And God forbid I take a bad beat at that table...it's all they'll talk about for an hour.


This is why I try to play in the evening hours, when the younger and middle-aged players show up....not during the day when the older players play (one of my friends calls the noon-to-six game the "bingo game" - no offense to the more seasoned players out there.) It's a tough game, full of rocks that fold and fold and fold and fold. Forget about raises. $16 dollar pots are not that uncommon at that game. One woman checked and called her middle set against my overpair the whole way, in the face of all kinds of possible draws. I'm glad she wasn't raising, but she cost herself some money at considerable risk, IMO. Talk about game selection....get me out of that nightmare!


I don't get a lot of respect in most of the games I sit in, but I think it's only a small advantage. I'm not really looking for respect, even though some of the more observant players do give me some. Too much respect can be a bad thing. Example: one session I was on a rush...hitting almost everything in sight, outkicking other top pairs, etc. No bluffing. Then I picked up wired Aces UTG. I raised, since I hadn't raised preflop in a long time. Fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold. Great.


Being young won't make up for any serious flaws in your game, such as the "very stupid mistakes" you alluded to. I don't think I have any fundamental flaws for a LL player, but I'm still plugging leaks, same as any decent player should be. That's where I try to concentrate most of my brainpower and analysis...not worrying about what image I have at the table. I'm not a turtle, but I'm not the life of the party either. I definitely don't play up my relatively young age like some players I know...one guy dresses up like a high school thug with his hat on backwards, just so he won't get any respect.


At the higher limits, image may count for a lot...since those players usually don't make many mistakes, and a winner wins by stacking up small advantages. Reminds me of something Sklansky said about a pro female player who said although David was a better player, she would make more money because the guys play worse against her. Makes sense. But at the $4-$8 table, it doesn't matter how young you look and how little the table respects you if your fundamental game is flawed.

However, you sound like a dumb fuck when you start making references to "Rounders." Referencing that movie is so cliche and you sound like you don't know what you're talking about saying that movie has made young people better players. If anything, it has added to make people ignorant about poker and thinking that you can take over the world playing no limit poker. The story is a tale of tragedy because Mike never learns that he is trying to accomplish a fool's quest.


Dan,


"Rounders" got people that never would have been intrested thinking about poker (and investing time and money into the studying the game). You are quite correct when you say it conveyed some misconceptions of poker but it really did get me and my friends intrested. It probably wouldn't have been as intresting a story if the hero made his living playing poker and hanging out. What entertaining movie involving a game have you seen that doesn't sensationalize playing the game? Of course it was foolish but hey...it made for an engaging plot!


Zach

i don't think that any of us can say that our fundamental game is perfect 100%. that said, the low limit old farts i have played against haven't learned a whole lot from all their experience except that bad beats can happen. and how do they combat that? they rarely raise, and call a whole lot. the lack of respect that we get is great when we hit our hands and they hit something too. our raises aren't respected and we get many more callers when our hands are top dog. in time they will respect our play, but then we will be able to seitch gears on them and punish them just as much for that respect... i am 23, ive been playin for 2 years in casinos, and about 4 years total. after a certain point the value of increased experience drops off. i agree that if i have played 100 hours of casino poker, and my friend has never played in a casino, i have an advantage. but if i have played 1000 hours and you have played 1100 then you are not really that far ahead as experience goes. yes, experience helps, and it really does, but if i am smarter, think faster, play harder, read hands better, and fold when i can't win, then i am going to beat you no matter how old you are and how many hours you've played in your life.