Should i have folded the turn?

[Noodles]

Party Poker 0.50/1 (10 handed).Table is a tad aggressive,the BB seems a good player
Noodles has A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif and is CO

MP1 limps, Noodles raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls

Flop(6 SB): 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

BB checks, MP1 bets, Noodles raises (was this ok or should i just call on a board like this) BB 3-bets, MP1 folds, Noodles calls(figure i am definetly beat but see what the turn brings)

Turn(10 BB): J/images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB bets, Noodles folds(ok i think i am definenetly beat but i wonder if he had a flush?)Since he seemed a good player i felt if he had a flush he would wait until the turn to bet it up)

[bdk3clash]

I would have capped the flop and then folded to a bet on the turn.

My thinking (and veterans, please tear me one on this) is that by capping, you show as much aggression as possible, and if he still bets into you on the turn, he can probably beat TPTK.

The problem is that if I were him, I would play a hand like K/images/graemlins/club.gifQo the same way.

As it is, I still say this is a good turn laydown, but I'd be doing with a "clearer conscience" if I had capped the flop. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

If you are indeed beat, the hands that beat you right now (QQ, KK, and AA, though these are unlikely since he probably would have re-raised PF, 33, 55, Q5, Q3, any /images/graemlins/club.gif flush) leave you with few or no outs. Many of these hands are typical--and, unfortunately for you, reasonable--hands to call a raise with from the BB.

I think this is a good spot to fold the turn, but I think the lesson here is to show aggression on the flop for information on the later streets.

Alternately, if he checks the turn you can check through if you suspect a check-raise for a 1-bet showdown if he bets the river (barring another /images/graemlins/club.gif) if you really suspect a bluff.

Or you can bet the turn and if he check-raises you can fold. If he check-calls and checks the river, you can probably bet for value, though this may be close.

So many options, and at first glance it seems like such a simple hand!

[chesspain]

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BB bets, Noodles folds(ok i think i am definenetly beat but i wonder if he had a flush?)Since he seemed a good player i felt if he had a flush he would wait until the turn to bet it up)

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If he was holding a baby flush or a set, he was smart to get his money in when he did. Indeed, since BB came alive on the flop with the three-bet checkraise into two other players, I'ld say that odds are good that he has you beat.

Even though the pot is fairly large by the time it came back to you, I might have just layed it down after the checkraise, since it looks like you may already be drawing dead. If you were holding a set, then it make sense to keep going, since you would have outs regardless.

Calling the flop c/r and then folding to one bet on the turn does not make much sense. If you thought that you still had the better hand, you should have called the turn bet, especially since it was HU, and see if the river brings a club. If you thought that he already had the flush, then you should not have even called his flop c/r.

I know that hands like this are difficult to play, but you need to try to have a plan on the flop if you intend to call a bet which takes into account your play for the remainder of the hand.

[Noodles]

<Calling the flop c/r and then folding to one bet on the turn does not make much sense. If you thought that you still had the better hand, you should have called the turn bet, especially since it was HU, and see if the river brings a club. If you thought that he already had the flush, then you should not have even called his flop c/r.>

The thing is I wasnt sure that he had the flush,i was also thinking of the 2 pair or trips.So to see the turn i had pot odds of 13/1 which is enough for an Ace or a Queen,if i got either of these I was just going to call to the end.
since i got nothing i decided to fold the turn.

I feel this is the wrong way of thinking about pot odds as when you count up pot odds isnt it dependent on making the best hand? So 2 pair would at most have a 60% chance of being the best hand so i would need way booger pot odds right?

If it was a usual player i would have no problem folding,shows the value of being aggressive and tricky!

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
So to see the turn i had pot odds of 13/1 which is enough for an Ace or a Queen,if i got either of these I was just going to call to the end.


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As another poster said here recently (ElSapo?), it's usually a weak play to call a bet for a draw that you won't even feel good about raising if it hits. The fact that you may well be behind a flush (drawing dead) or 55/33 (drawing very thin) means that I want way better odds than 13:1 to continue.

[Noodles]

>As another poster said here recently (ElSapo?), it's usually a weak play to call a bet for a draw that you won't even feel good about raising if it hits<

Good logic, think i will apply that in future.