A hand with cj.

[rkiray]

Same Party table as last post. Idiot and button from last post still here. Unfortunately 2+2er cjx has joined the table. At the time this was played I wasn't sure if it was him or not (thought it was) and I'm reasonably sure he didn't know who I was. I may have gotten out of line here. EP1 is cjx. Comments.

Party Poker 2/4 (9 handed)
Hero has Jh, Js and is CO

EP1 limps, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds, UTG folds, EP1 3-bets, Hero calls, Button calls

Flop(10 1/2 SB): 4d, 3s, 8d

EP1 bets, Hero raises, Button calls, EP1 3-bets, Hero caps, Button folds, EP1 calls

Turn(10 1/4 BB): 5s

EP1 bets, Hero calls

River(12 1/4 BB): Qd

EP1 checks, Hero checks

Results below in white.

<font color="white"> cj takes it down a pair of Ks.</font>

[JohnShaft]

Hi Rick.
Um, let me think. I think against a standard unknown opponent (who you cannot assume plays well, or at least not badly) I think I probably play it the same way.

Now, if we assume cjx is a good player, and we also assume he won't take any "2+2 table shots" at you (if he doesn't know who you are) we probably can play it a little differently.

He limp reraised from EP. So we'll assume he has a strong hand AA/KK/AK minimum.

You raise him on the flop, telling him you have an overpair (after your preflop raise) and he still 3-bets you. Knowing he's decent I think we really can rule out AK here.

Now you cap, and he leads out at you again. He's got a biggie here. He really has to have.
His limp-reraise, bet-3bet, lead into capper, tells you he has AA, or KK minimum.
I think we really can say that if he is playing solidly.

Now I think as you capped the Flop and he still lead out you know you're behind to an overpair. I think you really can make a 'strong' fold here if we don't have the odds.
We're getting 10-1 on the call. Half the odds we need.

I think you can fold this here.

Now if you weren't going to fold (and intended to call him down) if you capped the Flop and he led out, I think (if you want to see the overpair) you should have called the Flop 3-bet.

It's a 'strong fold' in some regards, against unknown opponents.
But I think you can make this fold against someone you know is a solid player, and therefore almost certainly has you beat.

The only other hand he is likely to play this way that you beat is exactly AK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
In the heat of the battle do I make this fold though? Maybe not.


I also think *maybe* cjx should probably have bet the River.
He has to be scared you have exactly QQ, and that's less likely than the other possibilities - AA-JJ-TT.
He won't get a bet from JJ-TT by checking, but will lose one to AA if he bets OR checks (so he might as well bet)...

[rkiray]

Yeah,

I said I thought I got out of line. Somehow I overlooked that he limped reraised (probably because I was also playing at a UB table at the same time). I thought we both just raised pf until I saw the hand history. I would have slowed down if I noticed the limp reraise. I thought this table was reasonably loose passsive so I would have just raised with his hand. Maybe he did know who I was. If he did he is very sharp since my Party ID has only been posted here once.

We talked after the hand so I know he is cjx. He has promised to look for my post.

[cjx]

First, I had no idea who you were and had no read on you so I figured you were a regular old Partier.

On the turn I bet out and figured if you raise I'm going to assume AA and call/check call the rest of the way assuming I don't catch a miracle King. When you just call I put you on exactly QQ or possibly AK diamonds... I kind of felt silly not betting the river because the value river bet is actually something I've really been working on lately, but I felt utterly confident you had Queens.

cjx

[rkiray]

Sounds like monsters under the bed syndrome.

[Mike Gallo]

Rikiray,

A limp reraise most often means Aces or Kings.

Taking that into account, I think you may have overplayed your hand a bit.

[rkiray]

Yep,

Like I mentioned to John, I didn't notice the limp reraise so I overplayed the hand. I was playing a hand at UB at the same time. I'm tight (see about 20% of flops) so this will only happen about 4% of the time, but it bit me this time.

[Mike Gallo]

This hand should teach you another lesson.

Always pay attention to the action at the table.