Preflop question

[slavic]

Live B&M 10/20 (loose game, 1 tricky player but everyone else is straight forward)

5 limpers to the CO(Loose Weak, passive) who raises, you are on the button with QJs. call, raise, or fold? and why?

[Brian]

Hi Slavic,

I think you can call and play for the straight/flush value alone. You're almost certainly up against a big pair, and you may even be completely dominated by QQ, but with so many limpers, I think it's wrong to turn down this situation on the Button.

-Brian

[hutz]

Quick thoughts . . .

Argument for folding: A passive player raises the field pre-flop? I'd give 'em credit for a big hand (at least following my definition of what a passive player is).

Argument for calling: You have the button in a multi-way pot against soft opponents with a hand that can flop big.

Argument for raising: If you have good control over the raisor and he'd raise hands other than AA or KK against a field, you might be able to get it heads-up and push him off his hand if rags fall.

My inclination would be to call ~90% of the time, fold ~10% (when I expect it may get re-raised and capped before returning to me), and to raise only under exceptional circumstances (like when I own the raisor and could push him off AK).

[Aces McGee]

From your description of the CO, it seems obvious that he has a hand that could easily dominate yours, but you've got at least six opponents and a big suited connector with great position. Seems like a call to me.

McGee

[Clarkmeister]

I'd fold.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
Live B&M 10/20 (loose game, 1 tricky player but everyone else is straight forward)

5 limpers to the CO(Loose Weak, passive) who raises, you are on the button with QJs. call, raise, or fold? and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm calling. Assuming all limpers call, you're getting almost 7:1. Raising would be counter-productive for a few reasons. I think with QJs you want additional callers, and 3-betting may drive out a few of the limpers.

Additionally, given your description of the CO, he likely has a strong hand and might 4-bet. This would be good if everyone else was calling, but 3-betting makes it less likely that they will all do so. I'm ecstatic if this hand can be capped 7 ways, but 3-betting likely won't accomplish this.

Additionally, you can obviously proceed with caution if the flop is Q or J high, since CO could easily still be ahead.

[Taxman]

Call. Limpers will all certainly call one raise, but may fold to two and your hand wants a large field. If the CO also limped in (or folded), I would raise with this hand. I would never fold in this circumstance.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? (Not criticizing, just curious.)

[Barry]

Interesting question...

With lots of limpers this hand would be worth a raise on the button, but with a weak passive raising, you're up against a big hand.

If if was playing well and could get away from the hand if I didn't flop BIG, I'd likely call, otherwise I'd fold.

[slavic]

for the record I folded.

1) only one raising hand I could think of didn't have me dominated.

2) The two bets really hurt the implide odds on the raise and with little value in my Q or J I'm likely not getting the best of it.

I thought this was funny because I was thinking of raising it a few seconds before the CO did raise.

[hutz]

We'd expect nothing less from an uber-tighty like you! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[rharless]

Another con: your position relative to the PFR sucks for maximizing the pot when you hit your hand.

If there were many people between you and the PFR, then if you flop a huge hand or a huge draw, you can ram and jam and not lose anyone, getting value bets in on the flop. You also get to see how all those people react to the PFR's flop bet before you decide how to act.

Being right after the PFR, you can't win as much. If you flop a great draw, well you don't want to raise the PFR's bet to confront everyone with calling 1BB on the flop. If you flop something like JT5, the PFR bets and you have to raise but you don't really like it. The pot is big so you have to stay in, but to have a hope of winning you would like to both get opponents out and try for a free card (possible if he is passive). But with this passive guy raising PF, you will often be behind on the flop even if it kinda-hits you. Not an enviable situation for a 1BB pf investment.

Still learning. How'd I do?

[bernie]

[PocketRocketsBF]

I am calling, this is almost the perfect situation for the type of hand that you have, lots of committed players to the pot so that when you do hit your flush or straight you'll be handsomely rewarded.