OK, I do object to my tax money being used for this.

[MaxPower]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&e=2&u=/nm/bush_marriage_dc

[elwoodblues]

Who knows better than the federal government what is a healthy marriage?

[Zeno]

From the article:

[ QUOTE ]
The plan would provide at least $1.5 billion for training to help couples develop interpersonal skills that sustain "healthy marriages," the paper said.



[/ QUOTE ]

Would this include tax assistance to purchase sex toys and other sexual aids or attend sex classes to help promote a joyful sex life - thus promoting and stimulating healthy marriages? I should think so!

Bully for Bush. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-Zeno

[HDPM]

Yep, pure insanity designed only to buy votes.

[Cyrus]

"Who knows better than the federal government what is a healthy marriage?"

I thought the U.S. federal government's specialty was sodomy.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I thought the U.S. federal government's specialty was sodomy.

They're diversifying.

[andyfox]

. . .said the devil's advocate.

50% of marriages end in divorce. A great percentage of children are born out of wedlock, especially among blacks. Both liberals and conservatives agree, I think, that we'd be a better society with children growing up in two parent households, with less crime, drug use, and violence. What could be of more utility in promoting the general welfare?

A much better use of our money than sending somebody to Mars.

[CCass]

I was just about to type a similar response, but Andy beat me to it. It scares the hell out of me that I am agreeing with Andy... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

In all seriousness, I think this is a great idea in theory, because our country would be better off if more families were together, but I am not sure it is an achievable goal in reality.

[adios]

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]

A much better use of our money than sending somebody to Mars.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we spent money to go to Mars, we would at least acheive that goal.

Spending 1.5 Billion on this will acheive nothing. What makes you think that this program will have any effect on the general welfare?

Besides isn't everyone entitiled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. What is the government doing for me, the horny single guy?

[J.R.]

What is the government doing for me, the horny single guy?

Protecting you from a drunken mistake with a middle aged, recent divorcee looking for a quick rebound score.

[Ulysses]

A condom is the right answer there, not marriage.

[J.R.]

Uh, I was more thinking about the "what was I thinking last night to hook up with this crazy older chick and how do I get out of here scenario" that would not have occurred had she stayed married.

[Roy Munson]

Once the government starts to actively promote marriage the institution will be in greater peril than ever.

The US government's rate of failure at achieving the goals set forth in any program is staggering. All this program will accomplish is enriching the politically connected administrators.

[bdypdx]

Deep in the heart of Texas...
-----------------------------------

Sex aid saleswoman charged with obscenity

BEN MCCONVILLE IN NEW YORK


ACROSS the world they have become as routine as a Tupperware party, but now a seller of sex aids has fallen foul of obscenity laws in Texas.

Joanne Webb, a former fifth-grade teacher, executive board member of the local Chamber of Commerce and mother of three, was called to Johnson County Court, 50 miles south-west of Dallas, and charged with a misdemeanour under the state’s obscenity law. After an anonymous complaint, undercover drugs officers posing as a dysfunctional married couple in search of a sex aid entrapped the saleswoman for Passion Parties. If convicted, she faces a year in prison and a $4,000 (£2,290) fine.

Mrs Webb said: "What I did was not obscene. What’s obscene is that the government is taking action about what we do in our bedrooms."

Pat Davis, the president of Passion Parties, said the incident was the first time in ten years of trading that one of the company’s 3,000 sales consultants had been arrested. She said the "company was outraged by the charges and stood behind Mrs Webb".

Ms Davis added: "It makes you wonder what they’re thinking out there in Texas. They sound like prudes, with antiquated laws. They must have all their street crime under control in Texas if they’re going to spend tax money arresting us."

For the past 12 months, Mrs Webb has sold the company’s line of vibrators, gels, lubricants and creams.

The merchandise is offered for sale in private, Tupperware-style parties to women who may be reluctant to visit a sex shop. Sex shops get around the laws by posting signs that say sex toys are "sold only as novelties", but Ms Webb did not do that.

Ms Davis said: "Our products are not obscene. All we’re trying to do is help people build loving relationships. We’re doing a wonderful service, and we’re not doing anything wrong." Mrs Webb believes she got in trouble because she ruffled feathers in town by daring to join the local Chamber of Commerce with her sex toy business. She said her arrest had caused her husband of 20 years to suffer a nervous breakdown.

Mrs Webb said she was amazed the narcotics squad was put on the case. "We have a real problem with drugs in our schools, and they’re using our narcotics officers to entrap me for selling a vibrator," she said.

[MMMMMM]

Yes andy, it probably is a great idea...but it's not the constitutional purview of the federal government to: A) implement every "great idea" it comes across or invents, and B) force everybody to pay for these countless "great ideas."

Let people spend their money on what they think is a great idea--for them.

The notion that the federal government should tax people in order to pay for countless "great ideas" is one major reason our economy is not much better than it is, and why the average standard of living is not much higher...and why many people aren't prepared for retirement, and why many people cannot afford health care or health insurance.

Let the federal government do what it is expressly and primarily authorized to do in the Constitution...let the states do what they do best...and let families and individuals do what they do best...all with as little encumbrance as possible.

All this talk of government is making me sick. The essence of good government is leaving people the hell alone, while defending them from assaults on their lives, liberty or property...that's the best domestic government IMO. Tax people as much as needed in order to accomplish that to a reasonable degree. Protect the nation from foreign attack and conduct business as necessary with foreign powers...that's the best internationally. But forcibly extracting money from everybody in order to fund a zillion programs (some good, some mediocre, some cockamamie), as opposed to funding legitimate needs such as national defense, is neither a good use of time, nor money, nor human resources--and in the final analysis, is ultimately counterproductive as well.

[KJS]

Andy,

As the son of a 37-year and counting NASA mathematician, I have to step in here. Sure I am biased, but I think funding the kind of science that NASA does is very worthwhile and will help future generations, and add greatly to human knowledge. That includes Mars projects, which may point to clues about the beginning of life. That said, sending people adds huge expense to any space project, and is not always offset by the benefits. A dozen rovers would probably do the trick and cost the same as one manned flight. But people wanna see people up there, not robots. Always been NASA's dilemma: keeping people interested in the pure science studied in space is difficult, but put some humans on a ship and everyone is watching.

Personally, I am glad to see Bush showing an interest in the space program and my father says the Pres may order all work on other projects to be backburnered to get his new initiatives going. Dad thinks that will really energize the NASA folks. And I think in the end humankind will benefit from the work that results, which makes it a worthwhile expenditure by an administration that seems to be screwing future generations in so many other ways.

KJS

[adios]

As far as Man vs. robot type missions, man is much better at pattern recognition and is able to perceive problems and rectify them easier. For instance on the first lunar landing, a robot controlled mission would have put the Lem in a bed of boulders. The astronauts were able to see this and guided it to a safe landing. Both types have their pluses and minuses. As far as value for cost tradeoffs, the space program has helped technological advancement in many areas that people use in every day life. The space program is very small portion of the budget.

[Jim Kuhn]

Andy,

You are starting to make alot of sense! Stay away from the gun debates!

[Cyrus]

I hear that a part of this admirable effort by the United States government is a campaign to cleanse the marital bed of unnatural practices. This will be expedited in phases, according to a plan drawn up by reknown sex expert Pat Robertson.

Have you folks heard if cunnilingus or fellatio will be the first to go?

(On the other hand, marital bed and fellatio?.. Maybe they'll be outlawing something that ain't going down anyway.)

[elwoodblues]

Andy -- as they say, the devil is in the details. I can just imagine how a "healthy" marriage will be defined by Washington. Just to fan a few flames...do Conservatives want Bill Clinton having a hand in defining a healthy marriage? Do liberals really want a Newt Gingrich defining healthy marriage?

[andyfox]

"The US government's rate of failure at achieving the goals set forth in any program is staggering."

The government does a lot of things well. We hear about the most visible failures because they are usually costly and, well, the most visible.

[andyfox]

[jstnrgrs]

We have a problem, throw some money at it. I don't have a problem with promoting marrage. Maybe, we should give 10,000 couples $150,000 each if they will get married, and stay married. That would probably work better than what is being proposed.

[Cyndie]

African culture was based on matriarchal families...this does not mean the woman is in control, but that she looks to her brother or uncle as a "father" figure for the support of her children. That is still a more common family structure than it is in Anglo families. In some circumstances, there is a "family" it just isn't the one we are used to...but matriarchal societies were around for a long long time.

The lower economic level might have to do more with education than "family."

As far as the government spending money for programs like this...unfortunately they are probably leaving out the sex toys and talking more about the responsibilities...such a pity.

If it only took as much preparation to have children as it does to raise them, things might work out better.

However, I am not sure that sending some people to mars is such a bad idea...can I make some suggestions?

[Cyndie]

Does anyone care to do the math about how much $1.5 BILLION dollars could be per person in the country? aren't we still hovering around 300,000,000 people? Nah, just five bucks for every man woman and child in the country...chump change.

I bet there are a lot of people who would be better off if the government just spent that money on education...seems that well educated people have fewer children. Let every teenage girl and boy spend a month or two in a pre-school...see how eager they are to risk making babies! You won't have to pay for the administrators of the program and the high office cost...just put the kids to work and have a net savings in cost...is that too simple?

Course it could be that I am a bit biased after having spent a few years teaching...and before anyone gets going too much...I do not think that teachers are grossly underpaid, just should be more options for the $50 k per year for full-time teachers...and let the ones who want 9 month jobs keep them at $35 k...i liked the free time and a schedule that worked with my kids.

Has anyone ever heard of the law of unintended consequences...it is akin to the adage, "be careful what you ask for, you might get it." I really like to think about ten times before i give a beaureaucrat a budget that dictates that he has to spend all the money we give him or her before he can get a raise!

[Roy Munson]

The one thing that the government does best is raise revenue and grow. If they do anything else well they must have the worst PR because none of it gets out.