the confessions of a losing player (long)

for the past month or so, i have been running bad. or so i have thought. so now i'm trying to reassess my game and find all the leaks i need to work on. i don't consider myself a good player, but where i play, there's some really bad players. it's colorado, and it's a $2/5 hold em game. 1-$2 blind, and $2 to $5 bets on all rounds. most people will limp, every now and then a pre-flop raise, and rarely a re-raise pre-flop.


perhaps i'm even giving myself too much credit still, thinking i should be beating these players


i probably see less flops than everyone else playing. should i be loosening up my starting hand standards, if i'm pretty sure that there will be no raise?


i try to play premium hands only. raise or reraise preflop with big pairs and big suited connectors (though sometimes it's damn near impossible to get people out of the hand) i'll limp with pairs and medium suited and

unsuited connecters. i don't even play small suited connectors in late position sometimes, 23 to 67(should i be playing these?). although i do try and mix things up. maybe raising hands that are borderline, just so i'm not

so predictable, but not that often.


somedays it seems like everything is going right, i'm winning the right pots, i'm playing really good, getting all the bets i can, reading the table well, and stealing pots when i can.


when this happens i feel confident, but not cocky. i don't overplay hands, just cause i'm on a streak and everyone seems to be giving me "respect"


then somedays it feels like i'm playing all the wrong hands, relying too much on cards like AA, KK, AKs, getting caught in semi-bluffs, getting caught with too many 2nd best hands. getting sucked in, and drawing dead.


when i'm having these days i don't go on tilt, but i just tighten up.


i also realize taht i have to endure the swings of the game. i usually play with $200 (i know this is probably not enough, i'm on a limited bankroll) a session.


i play for fun mostly, but i enjoy winning, and walking away with money. i don't get mad when i lose. i can usually laugh off bad beats, and enjoy the company.


of course i find myself thinking about poker all the time, and wanting to play all the time.


normally i'll have 2 losing sessions per winning sessions, my winning sessions are usually shorter, like i'll play 4 hours and be up $100, where as my losing sessions will be when i play for 8-9 hours and lose between

$100-200.


i'm still relatively new, so i hope that the more i play the better i will get. i've been reading this site daily for the past 3-4 months. i've reread WLLHE by lee jones many times, i've just started on HEPFAP (i don't know

why it took me so long to get this, i guess i thought it was for more of the bigger money, more standard structured games.


so if anyone's got suggestions, please feel free to let me have it. or tell me to give it up, or tell me that it took you a while to become a winning player and i'll get there. or tell me to just enjoy myself and hope the luck is

good (or as many players call it - timing). i doubt you'll convince me to quit, so if i should quit, then maybe you'll be fortunate to catch me on a losing night. (the odds are in your favor! heh)


oh, just curious, how long did it take you to become a winning player?


thanks for listening, and thanks for any advice.


i love this game.

Don't play for 8 hour sessions. If you do, take at least a thirty minute break after you feel you've made your first big mistake. Make sure your draws have enough people in the pot to make it worthwhile. Try Sklansky's Theory of Poker also.

Hi there oddjob. I am not a huge winner or consider myself an expert by any means. I only post here because I have some experience in the $2-5 game (usually with a kill) and thought I might be able to talk about some things that you may already know.


The biggest difference in the line-up I play in the 2-5 game is that often you are getting huge implied odds to see the flop; especially with the passive line-up that seems to populate these games.


To me this means that if I am fairly certain that I can see the flop for the minimum, I will with most pairs and suited connectors from MP and LP. I like to see the flop with pairs, because if you flop a set, I am sure to make a nice pot or I can dump it if I miss. I am still very tight from EP. The only deception that I may use from EP is trying to limp/reraise with AA, AKs, and AQs from time to time.


I almost never slow play a hand for any reason. You must make it very expensive for opponents to draw. Check raising may upset players into not giving you any action, but you must use this to knock them out of the hand. In my games, 4-5 will see the flop and most will stay for the turn and fold making it heads-up on the river. Betting and raising every chance you get may help keep the two of the players from chasing their 23:1 long shots or rivered 2-pair.


Strong draws on the flop are the best hands to have here. Top pair/top kicker is a tough hand to play against 5 limpers who cold-call a raise. Be prepared to dump a lot of hands on the flop. I usually don’t play over cards (except maybe AKo) from the flop. I really don’t think that I am giving up much, unless I only have one or two opponents.


I hate to ramble on anymore, but just remember that because you are getting implied odds that are often through the roof, you should consider seeing the flop with more smaller pairs and medium/small connectors. Read HFAP21 section on spread games again for the most reliable advice.


Comments welcome.

Please tell me the entire names of the books you mentioned,WLLHE, HEPFAP and HFAP21. I too need a lot more education in Holdem. I go into a game thinking I've got an edge on certain players only to get killed by runner, runner etc. Thanks.

WLLHE - winning low limit hold em by lee jones


HEPFAP - Hold Em Poker for Advanced Players by david s. and mason m.


i'm through a bit of HEPFAP right now, and it's got a lot of info that is missing from WLLHE.

Keep in mind that very few people are actually winning players and far fewer can actually win 1 or 2 BB an hour so it is very difficult to become good at this.

If you ever play NL or PL things become even more complicated but at least you can punish those fools who draw out on you by charging them pot size bets each round if they really wish to crack your set.

Hi oddjob,


I live in Colorado and don't feel it is worth it in any way to make the drive for 2-5. The max rate is $5. A full BIG BET!. On top of that, the norm is to tip a $1 when you win. You need to win over a BB/hr just to break even. This is surely possible, but if you are good enough to win 2+ BB/hr (and this is a SLOW game), you should be playing higher that $5 anyway. Hell you could make as much playing $0.50-$1 and $1/$2 on-line and you wouldn't have to make an annoying drive behind slow moving cars up a narrow canyon and then be trapped in a cheesy card room with bad food.


So to sum up, the game structure makes it hard to win and if you can, it's not worth it anyway. Better to take all that money you pay in rake and buy an e-fare to Vegas for $150 and play in a decent game.


Good luck,


Paul Talbot

Thank You Oddjob.