Playing middle pairs when you don't flop a set.

[Lexander]

I was curious how others felt about the handling of middle pairs when the flop looks like it misses everybody but there are still overcards (88 on a 962 rainbow).

I have only been playing the $25 PP games, and I have found in general that dropping a LP middle pair on a ragged board has generally been a bit too weak.

In general, I find that if I have position, or I have a read that my opponent is calling or raising on overcards only, that betting out the pair in this situation typically wins the pot, particularly if I continue on the turn after the turn shoots a blank. I deliberately avoid pressing too hard, but I win a fairly good number of hands when AJ folds, somebody calls with middle pair, or a lower pair continues to call.

I don't consider this a huge posEV situation and there are clearly a number of risks. But I am curious how others tend to play this situation and what strategy they recommend.

[1800GAMBLER]

Hey.

How do you bet out with position?

If you are going first you are out of position, then you have a problem if just called by a loose player.

In position calling pot sized bets here knowning AK AQ AJ will freeze up on the turn and knowning AA KK QQ wont, is bad too.

They are a very hard hand to play against player who keep their bet sizes the same, plus may bluff the turn.

Low stakes they generally chage their bluff sizes so it becomes easier, yet here protecting your hand is still hard.

[Lexander]

How do you bet out with position?

Arrgh, I was being confusing here.

Basically, if I am out of position and have pretty much determined that my opponent is playing high cards (I don't do this much, since it is a fairly rare read but it does happen), I will put a bet in at this point. I don't do this much at all.

If I am in position, I will often bet if it is checked to me. If not checked to me, I usually let this go. Most of the time it is folded to me, with a very rare call and sometimes a check-raise (I generally fold if check-raised here).

I don't consider any of this necessarily 'good' or 'great' strategy. I am really just trying to learn and add to my game, and am developing a strategy of playing these hands as I learn. I am essentially trying to keep my game from becoming predictable and weak.

To me, these types situations are more of the 'cut and thrust' portion of Poker, where neither player may have much of a hand and the pot goes to the fighter. I have found that doing a bit of this here and there helps when I truly do get that monster.

- Lex

[SpaceAce]

Haha, wait a minute, here. Does this hand look familiar to you? http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=478112&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1

SpaceAce

[Lexander]

Lol, I don't think that particular one was me.

- Lex

[Ulysses]

Against most opponents, on a 9623 board, I'll play 88 and KK the same way on the flop and turn. That assumes a relatively small field. I'll play more cautiously if everyone limped and I also limped w/ 88.