Is this a fold.. or what? - EDIT, wrong Flop

[Brian]

Party 3/6. I just sat down at the table, so no reads. I am dealt A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif on the Button. MP opens with a raise, and LP cold-calls. I 3-bet, SB calls, and BB folds. MP and LP call. 4 to the Flop for 13sb.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to me and I bet, everyone calls. 4 to the Turn for 17sb (8.5bb).

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to me and I bet, SB folds, MP calls, LP raises. Your move?

-Brian

[EDIT]: Misposted the Flop. 2 clubs and a Spade, not 3 clubs.

[LetsRock]

When I see a 4 suiter board and more than one caller, I'm pretty sure someone's got "a" spade. Occasionally I'll learn otherwise, but I don't usually put any more money in a pot in this spot. Maybe one more bet vs. 1 opponent, but not here. Nice try to buy them out, but it looks pretty clear that LP was looking for a C/R.

Buhbye pot /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Nate tha' Great]

Check/fold the turn.

That board on the flop is as scary to them as it is to you. It's hard to see anyone sticking around with any hand *weaker* than TPTK that does *not* contain a four flush. And the four flush just became a five flush. You're screwed, man. Muck it.

[LetsRock]

Oh sure, suck me into giving advice on the wrong hand! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I'd be less inclined to give up. He could just be value betting his draw. Call/Call unless the 4 flush does hit.

[Brian]

Hi LetsRock,

If he is raising on a Flush draw, then it is not for value. It would be a semi-bluff. If it were heads-up, I'd be more inclined to call, but theres also the other guy calling in there.

-Brian

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
If he is raising on a Flush draw, then it is not for value. It would be a semi-bluff. If it were heads-up, I'd be more inclined to call, but theres also the other guy calling in there.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Brian

What are you worried about the other caller having? Seems like you'd hear from a hand better than TPTK.

If you'd call heads up because of a possible semibluff, then I don't see a reason not to call in this situation.

McGee

[Brian]

Hi Aces,

Yes, I would call heads-up because of a possible semi-bluff. But 3-way, it is less likely he is bluff check-raising since he would have to get out both me and the other caller. I am not worried at all about what the other caller has. Of course, you can't rule out anything in online low limit poker.

This guy cold-called pre Flop, and is now check-raising the pre-Flop re-raiser who has shown nothing but strength, along with the pre-Flop raiser, who seems to want to call things down. How often is TPTK good on that board in that situation? And if I am behind, how many outs am I usually drawing to?

-Brian

[Lost Wages]

Brian,

I don't think anyone is going to semibluff raise here after you 3 bet the flop and bet the flop and turn because there is just no reasonable expectation of getting two players to fold. It looks to me like he is raising with a hand that can beat top pair.

Lost Wages

[Aces McGee]

Brian

You make a very good point about the guy being less likely to semibluff with another opponent in. It's not out of the realm of possibility, but I hadn't thought of that.

McGee

[Brian]

Hi Aces,

Unfortunately, it is impossible to try to put any sort of read on most Party 3/6 players. They usually have no idea what they are doing, so saying that they are less likley to try to pull a bluff against 2 players is incorrect. If I had played with the guy a little longer, then I may have called him down, but being that I only had this hand to work with as far as information goes, I felt I was beat.

But, as MajorKong says, you don't win at LL hold'em by making big laydowns in big pots for 1 bet. I suppose laying down TPTK counts as big, and even though it's 2 big bets instead of 1 for me to see the showdown, I am really not sure if this was a correct laydown. I'm going to wait for more opinions before I post the results.

-Brian

[Brian]

Hi guys,

I folded to the check-raise on the Turn. The River brought a blank, and MP checked and LP checked. MP had ATo, with the T /images/graemlins/club.gif, and LP won it with K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. The reason I ask if I am just being results-oriented is I am still not sure if calling down here is correct. Even though I folded the winning hand, being that I was new to the table, it definitely looked like I was pretty far behind there. Who knows what the guy with K2 thought, he had a decent enough hand to show down. It's not like he was bluffing or anything... Bleh, who knows.

-Brian

[Aces McGee]

Hi Brian



Sorry I'm just getting to this. Your original response to me seemed to indicate that it's unlikely he'd check-raise semibluff here against two opponents. But here you seem to be saying that you can't rule it out against Party 3/6 opponents.

I have to ask, then, again: Why would you call it down heads up but fold with the other player in?

McGee