Packers Choke Worse Than The Red Sox

[Bill Murphy]

What-The-Hell-Was-That??? If I were the Packers GM, I'd take a couple days to calm down, but I wouldn't put firing Sherman out of the realm of possibility.

Guy completely lost his nerve on the 4th & 1 and goes against his own philosophy. Can't properly defend a 4th & 26, then its Keystone Kops time on the winning FG.

Of course, the Eagles tried to give it away at the end of regulation, but the Pack SUCKed out on the river! /images/graemlins/smirk.gif Sheesh....

Gotta love the poker smack from Jimmy Johnson during the postgame; "Mike Sherman was playing with the rent money, so he didn't go all in."

[Homer]

I just got back from the game. God, that was f'n incredible!

Guy completely lost his nerve on the 4th & 1 and goes against his own philosophy.

Seriously. I couldn't believe they didn't go for it there. 2:20 left, ball on the Eagles 36, 4th and a foot or so, and they don't hand it off to Ahman Green, who was consistently rushing for 5-6 yards each carry?

Also, I believe he made a mistake by going for it on 4th and goal earlier in the game, instead of kicking a field goal that would have put them up 17-7.

I believe these mistakes, however, pale in comparison to those made by Martz and Fox in the Car/Stl game. Martz settling for the tying field goal with 45-60 seconds left to play, rather than going for the winning score, was a joke. Fox's decision to kick a 53 yard field goal with 6:30 to go, already leading by 11, rather than punting, was also a poor decision (though not as bad as the one made by Martz).

-- Homer

[andyfox]

"Fox's decision to kick a 53 yard field goal with 6:30 to go, already leading by 11, rather than punting, was also a poor decision"

I told my son this exact thing at the time. It thought it was less than 6:30, but either way the point still holds. A good punt forces them to go 90 yards, a bad one 80 yards, for a TD, eating up valuable clock time. Instead they allow them to have to go only 57 yards.

[Lottery Larry]

From the email i sent out just after the game

"ye GODS were we lucky!
I can't believe we pulled that out! Thank you for wimping, Mike Sherman!
Thanks for the great 4th and 26 defense, secondary!
Thanks for the stupid throw, Mr Favre!!
WOOOOHOOOOOO!!"


Homer, has was it to watch live? I was going crazy from home, but at least i was warm. I thought we were toast on that 4th and 1 AND on the 4th and 26..

maybe we're the team of destiny? Or did I just jinx ourselves?

Any thoughts on going up against Carolina's D and running game? If their gameplan isn't 5 run: 1 pass I don't think they watched the correct game films...

by the way, ever have any luck setting up that game in your area?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Well, Homer, I can only say one thing. I bet on the Eagles in the NFC Championship game the last 2 years. I won't be betting on them this year.

[adios]

Sherman is the GM Bill /images/graemlins/smile.gif. Harlan would have to fire him but he won't this year. Big choke job no doubt. Young to Ownens all over again in the playoffs.

[Sheriff Fatman]

I 'adopted' the Eagles in 1981 as a 7 year old on holiday in Florida. They won the Monday Night game I caught on TV (vs Atlanta Falcons if I remember correctly) and became 'my team'.

After suffering disappointment ever since I started to think, especially after the last two seasons, that it was never going to happen. Last night, checking the 3rd quarter score on the net (whilst suffering suckout after suckout on Party) I awaited the inevitable failure again.

Then, after suffering another unbelievable bad beat putting the winner, seeing 85% of flops, up $150 at 2/4 I'd had enough. Off goes the computer, on goes the TV. Time to make myself really miserable!

Arrive just in time for the start of the 4th Quarter. First play seen - Eagles touchdown ties the game. Convinced that my presence has turned it around I watch in horror as they then appear to self-destruct after clawing back into the game.

At 4th and 26 its all over. The remote is poised ready to end my misery for another year. Seconds later, my girlfriend gets woken up by my shout of 'Come On' (its between 1 and 2am by now). Irritated she shouts down the stairs to ask what the hell's going on. My explanation receives little sympathy - to her it sounds like 'some team' in Philadelphia (where I've never been and have no links) have just scored in 'some weird game' she doesn't understand. Given that she already puts up with my soccer fanaticism, golf, poker-playing and too many other bad habits to mention, waking her up with this news is apparently 'going too far'.

Apologising, I sit back down promising to be quiet. I just about manage it when the field goal goes over to take the game into overtime. I barely contain myself when the Packers lose the coin-toss (a coin toss for God's sake!!!). Its almost painful keeping quiet when Favre loops his beautiful pass straight at two green shirts. However, when the winning field goal sails over (and before I realise it) I'm at it again, this time dancing around the room aswell for good measure. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm confident that I'll be allowed to have sex again one day. /images/graemlins/frown.gif In the meantime I have to hope that the surprisingly emotional celebration wasn't in vain. Next week will no doubt be further torture to watch but surely they can't lose at this stage again. God knows what state I'll be in if they ever make it to the Superbowl.

Surely it shouldn't matter to me this much but, for some reason, it does. Why didn't that 7 year old stick to Mickey Mouse instead of inflicting this on me instead? I just wish I could be there to see it in the flesh. Then again, I'd probably feel like an gatecrasher at someone else's party if I could. I just hope that, for those of you like Homer, with a bigger emotional stake in this than me, it all proves worthwhile.

I'll be thinking of you next week from my distant sofa.....

[Lottery Larry]

another true believer! Welcome to the agony that is "Eagles Fandom"

[Clarkmeister]

In addition to the other mistakes, going for the TD at the end of the first half was also a huge, unforgivable error. If you have a chance to go up by 2 scores, you take it. Period. If they had been up 3 at the time, it would have been different. Then you go for the TD. But since both a TD and a FG put you up by 2 scores, you take the 98% 3 points and make the Eagles score one extra time to beat you.

[George Rice]

I don't agree for a number of reasons.

1. The field goal is not a lock. If you miss it Philly gets the ball on the 20 with a lot of time.

2. If you make the TD you are up by 14 and Philly has the ball with a lot of time. Good chance they will either not score or score only 3 before the half.

3. If you make the field goal then Philly gets a kick-off and will have a good chance to score. If they score a TD you have lost ground.

4. If you don't make the TD, Philly gets the ball with terrible field position with little chance of scoring. Also you have a chance at a safety and getting the ball back, or getting the ball back on a punt if Philly goes 3 and out.

I think this is an easy call to go for the TD. If you were on the 3 yard line, then take the field goal.

As for the end of regulation, its a closer call, but I think a punt is correct. Too bad he made a lousy punt. I wouldn't want to give them the ball on the 40 if I missedon forth down. Now they would have a good chance to win outright. Don't forget they didn't make the 4th and goal earlier. Another way of looking at it is that if you make it you win; If you don't make it there's a good chance of a tie and some chance of a loss; If you make a good punt there is a good chance of a win and a good chance of a tie, with a small chance of a loss in regulation.

The Packers lost because of the way they executed on the field, not because of coaching decisions. The fourth and long they allowed Philly to make and the stupid pass Favre threw in OT cost them the game. Even trying to call another time out was stupid as they didn't even try to block the kick.

[Clarkmeister]

"1. The field goal is not a lock. If you miss it Philly gets the ball on the 20 with a lot of time"

Give me a break. The field goal is a lock. It's closer than an extra point.

"2. If you make the TD you are up by 14 and Philly has the ball with a lot of time. Good chance they will either not score or score only 3 before the half.

3. If you make the field goal then Philly gets a kick-off and will have an excellent chance to score--possibly even a TD."

You contradict yourself. Philly has less chance to score after a TD than a FG?!?!?

As I said initially, you go up the incremental score whenever possible. Period. The difference between 7 and 10 is much larger than the difference between 10 and 14, and it has lower variance also.

[adios]

"In addition to the other mistakes, going for the TD at the end of the first half was also a huge, unforgivable error."

The closer it is to half time the more you should kick the field goal IMO. One of the reasons to go for it is that you have a decent chance to get good field position and be close to field goal range again if you don't make it. At the end of the half you don't have that possibility. However, it should be noted that the Philly nose guard really made a good play in jamming the middle causing Green to stumble over his own guy. If the Philly nose guard doesn't make that play Green scores easily. I think it's close but I still liked the call but your point is well taken and certainly valid.

[Schneids]

I would think that this would finally be the year TO do it. Carolina certainly seems like a poor-man's Eagles.

The difference between the two teams, IMO, lies at QB... otherwise, they're fairly similar.

So, Philly being at home, coupled with Donovan, would be my two reasons FOR taking them.

What's the line at anyway?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Two things. The Panthers have at least as good a running game as the Packers, and the Panthers have a better defensive line than the Packers. McNabb will not have time to throw. Besides, McNabb's decision making under pressure is suspect. He's better than Delhomme, sure. But not by much.

That being said, I'll probably not bet. I don't much care which NFC team gets to Houston. The Patriots handle either of them.

[adios]

I think stats would indicate that the Packers had a better running game than the Panthers. However, the Panthers are no slouch at running the ball but Davis is questionable and that's got to hurt them I would think if he can't play. Foster has done ok as a backup and maybe he'll come through. I like the Panthers chances this week in that game. I do think the Panthers have a better 'D' than the Packers and their QB is playing well at this point IMO. Steve Smith is an excellent player. This should be an interesting game.

[George Rice]

[ QUOTE ]
Give me a break. The field goal is a lock. It's closer than an extra point.


[/ QUOTE ]

Tell that to New Orleans. There is no difference between an extra point (2yds) and the 1/2 yard chip shot. I have yet to see an extra point attempt which missed because it was short. But yes, it's probably around 97%. As an aside, I've won a lot of bets with people who think they are betting locks. I'll take 40:1 on this one /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
You contradict yourself. Philly has less chance to score after a TD than a FG?!?!?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol-I saw how it was worded and corrected it. The point is that Philly has a good chance to score if Green Bay scores--because of field position. If so, GB will be leading by 14, 10 or 7 if they make the TD, and will be leading by 10, 7 or 3 if the make the FG. If they miss the TD attempt it's unlikely (but posible) that Philly will socre a TD, more likely GB will be leading by 7 or 4. I think that GB was better than even money to make the TD. So you are betting 14,10,7/7,4 against 10,7,3, in effect.

[ QUOTE ]
As I said initially, you go up the incremental score whenever possible. Period. The difference between 7 and 10 is much larger than the difference between 10 and 14, and it has lower variance also

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is a lower varience. But you are ignoring the fact that Philly has a good chance to score because of field position after GB scores and that it has a much less chance to score, again because of field position, if GB fails at the TD attempt. Also, GB has a chance of getting the ball back with good field position if Philly goes 3 and out and may get a shot at a FG.

And I don't agree that there is a bigger difference between 10 and 7 compared to 14 and 10 at this point of the game. That's because a field goal forces Philly to score three times with the 14 but still only twice with the 10. In the 4th quarter then the FG is the right play.

But the bottom line is that the ball is a few inches from the goal line. If it was a couple of yards the FG is best.

[Jeffage]

Phila -5