A3 suited... I have to resurrect an old debate

[Mike Gallo]

Good Party Poker $1-$2 game.

I open limp with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Two more players limp, the sb folds, the big blind checks. Four of us see the flop.

Flop come A /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gif

KrisKris bets, I call,sftballs calls, next player folds.

Turn 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gif

KrisKris bets, I raise sftballs folds,kriskris calls.

River K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Kriskris checks, I bet she calls, and I had the winning hand.

Comments,critiques? Did this hand play itself?

I will give thoughts and insight later on.

[thirddan]

not sure i like the preflop limp. i would probably raise this flop because of flush and straight draws. rest of hand i play like you did. Just curious, what did opponent have?

[MaxPower]

I'm not sure what the debate is about. I would play it the same way.

Yes, I play Axs in EP and I don't apologize for it.

[Mike Gallo]

I'm not sure what the debate is about. I would play it the same way.

Max since you and I play a similiar type of game, you consider this a garden variety hand.

Many players treat this hand as a piece of trash. I posted the hand to demonstrate that with A3 a player can win when the Ace hits.

[SoCalPat]

In loose-passive games, I'll play Axs from just about anywhere. However, I wouldn't call this hand trash. It's significantly better than A3o.

Even then, I'd probably rather have A3x than A7x because of the increased straight possibilities. If you flop in ace, however, you're pretty much in the same boat -- both kickers equally suck and if someone else has an ace, you're begging to chop.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Many players treat this hand as a piece of trash. I posted the hand to demonstrate that with A3 a player can win when the Ace hits.


[/ QUOTE ]

You mean when two aces hit. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[bunky9590]

I like Axs just as much as the next guy but not in Ep or open limping in MP. I will open raise with it in LP and will limp along with other limpers from MP, LP and Blinds.

I agree about the A2 A3 A4 and A5 being MUCH better than A6 A7 A8 and A9. I like the added str8 possibilities and kickers get busted up to the A7 or A8 (on the whole)

Axo is TOTAL garbage except for tight blinds and all pass to me in the CO or button in which case I raise.

I have made it clear in the past that I like to have position when I play AXs and stand by my convictions. But, the games I'm usually in are a bit more on the aggressive side. ( Maybe I do this to the table, who knows)

[Nottom]

Against your standard any ace player A8 is much better than A2.

[bunky9590]

In that respect, you are correct, that's about where the kicker issues start to decline is A8.

In the tougher games Id rather ahve the A2s, i can win a bigger pot if the flop nails me and get get away easier if the aggression hits hard with a A on board.

[thirddan]

Not sure this hands is a good representation of what usually happens to A3 when an ace is on board...Usually if there is any kind of action a chop looks like a good deal

[Ed Miller]

agree about the A2 A3 A4 and A5 being MUCH better than A6 A7 A8 and A9.

This is just plain nonsense. The only two of these hands that are close is A5 and A6. A9 is MUCH better than A2.

I would like to put this "debate" to rest. Virtually every long-time, well-established poster on this site has said that under good conditions, you can play any Axs down to A2s from UTG. These people include Mason, David, Dynasty, Clarkmeister, me, and a whole slew of other Mid-Limit types. Stop with it, already. This is not an issue worth debating...

[Mike Gallo]

Stop with it, already. This is not an issue worth debating...

Ok, sorry Major /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[DeuceKicker]

This is news to me (then again, I haven't been reading here long). I was under the impression that most considered anything below A9s a fold EP. Could you tell me what "good conditions" are necessary to play lower Axs hands? Is it just generally a loose-passive table? Do you need to anticipate three, four, or five more limpers behind you before limping with A2s UTG?

After being an any ace player for a while, it looks like maybe I've tightened up too much.

TIA

[Ed Miller]

You need to read the preflop section of HPFAP. If you do not have the book, it is $30 very well spent. This recommendation is straight out of the book.

To answer your question, the table should be passive, and it helps if it is marginally to very loose.