HPFAP loose games basic odds question

On page 165 of HPFAP (part of the playing in loose games section) S&M state that is correct for the bottom pair to call on the flop if they are geting 12-1 odds (because there was a preflop raise) and incorrect to call if they are getting 7-1 odds. Is the reason behind this that they have 5 outs and the odds of hitting one of the outs on the turn is around 8-1?


I am asking this becuase I am trying to learn more about the underlying theory in HPFAP.


Thank you for any responses.


Kevin

Yes, I believe you have got the main reason. I think one of the points they are making is that when pots get large (usually through a lot of preflop raising), once the flop comes anyone who has virtually any piece of the board (bottom pair, middle pair, a gutshot, and so forth) is frequently getting correct pot odds to take off a card. Your opponents are not making mistakes calling a flop bet in these situations.

Kevin,


In a response to one of my newbie questions, you wrote that your email is in your profile. It isn't.


BTW, what are the five outs for the bottom pair? Two outs for making a set -- where do the other three come from?

Hey,

This wasn't my post - apparently I did something wrong in the past setting up my profile because I thought it was there. I think I have it set up now - so I apologize to this Kevin if he has to now post under a new name.


Kevin

You have 2 cards which give you trips and another 3 cards which match your side card giving you two pair using both your cards. This is 5 outs from 47 unseen cards so the odds are about 42-to-5 against improving which is roughly an 8-to-1 shot.

Kevin,


There must be a bug at TwoPlusTwo. When I click on Kevin on this post and on the post by Kevin that starts this thread, I get the same bio info.


That bio info is below and it doesn't have email. /images/smile.gif So we still have the same problem.


mdlm


Bio info for Kevin, but which Kevin?


Play under the name kailes2872 and big slim (my wife primarily) at Paradise, Party, Stars, UB, ACR, Poker Pages, and Planet on occasion. Only playing for about 3 years - 1 year intense study and on-line play. Currently playing $.50-$1.00 to $2.00 - $4.00 on line.


Kevin Ailes

30 year Old Professional White Male

That is me.

Kailes@zoominternet.net


I will get it fixed