Laydown KK here?

[Brian]

Party 5/10. Table is loose with spurts of aggressiveness. UTG+1 is pretty aggressive, but usually has a hand when he is, although he often overplays it.. No reads on the other players involved in the hand.

I am dealt K /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif on the BB. UTG+1 raises, LP calls, Button calls, SB calls, I re-raise, UTG+1 caps, everyone calls. 5 to the Flop for 20sb.

Flop: 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB checks, I bet, UTG+1 raises, LP and Button cold-call, SB folds, I re-raise, everyone calls. 4 to the Turn for 32sb (16bb).

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet, UTG+1 raises, LP re-raises, Button folds. Your move?

-Brian

[J.R.]

I'd unhappily call getting 22-2 (even though UTG + 1 may cap) with the K /images/graemlins/heart.gif. You may have outs (or the best hand?) and the pot is huge. UTG+1's turn raise is odd given his presumed big pair, the third heart on the turn and the 2 flop coldcallers. You hate LP's 3-bet, but you have outs against a 7, straight and most flushes.

[PocketRocketsBF]

I hold my nose and call but only because I have the K/images/graemlins/heart.gif

[el_grande]

Call.

Unless a king falls (easy bet), check the river. Then call if: 1) it's only 1 bet, or 2) your flush hit.

The only time I'd fold if you didn't hit the flush and it's bet and raised.

[ProfLupin]

Wow, crazy hand...
normally I'd put UTG+1 on aces, but since you say he often overplays a hand I suppose he could have QQ or lower. LP's reraise is the scary one though. If he does have the flush, I'd say it's pretty likely to be Ace high because he cold-called twice preflop. If he doesn't have the flush, you'll probably watch him turn over 99 /images/graemlins/frown.gif
The best case senario is LP with Q /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif or something similar and then you have to hope that UTG+1 isn't holding AA with one of them a heart.
The pot is huge here...I dunno...
It looks like a two outer w/ one card to come, and you're gonna pay at least 3 more BB to see the showdown.

I'd probably fold here, but it's close.

[ProfLupin]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd unhappily call getting 22-2 (even though UTG + 1 may cap) with the K /images/graemlins/heart.gif. You may have outs (or the best hand?) and the pot is huge. UTG+1's turn raise is odd given his presumed big pair, the third heart on the turn and the 2 flop coldcallers. You hate LP's 3-bet, but you have outs against a 7, straight and most flushes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the cap preflop don't you think it unlikely to be up against "most flushes" or a random 7?

[BigEndian]

Second nut flush draw, huge pot = call.

If a blank comes on the river, call one bet.

- Jim

[PocketRocketsBF]

He did say the table was loose and from the betting described it sounds like the description was accurate. I would not be suprised to see connected hearts drawing at this hand or a 76.

[Alobar]

I'm prolly folding this hand, its gunna cost you 2 BB to see the river, more than likely a heart is just going to force you to put more money in and your going to be shown the ace or the boat. You've really only got two outs

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm prolly folding this hand, its gunna cost you 2 BB to see the river, more than likely a heart is just going to force you to put more money in and your going to be shown the ace or the boat. You've really only got two outs

[/ QUOTE ]

no way. He has two entirely clean outs (OK everyonce in a blue moon he'll be up against quads) and a whole slew of slightly murky outs. the pot is enormous. not to mention every now and again he still has the best hand here (we've all seen some pretty crazy play online).

The only bad scenarios here are: LP has the nut flush, or a boat, OR UTG+1 has AAs with the heart. BUT even in this worst case we still have two outs.

more likely scenarios: LP has a 7, or a lower flush, or a straight. he could also be bluffing or semi-bluffing, with a hand like A9 with the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif and hero could be in the lead.

at a table described as loose and aggressive, this is an easy call on the turn. whether or not to call the river unimproved is the tough decision, and a trouble spot in my game, so on this matter i cannot advise.

[Brian]

Almost every time I have called down in this situation, it has been a waste of 3 BB's. This time, it wound up costing me 25BB+ by folding. The River was a blank, and UTG+1 won with T /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, beating LP's A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif. I felt sick at my stomach.

-Brian

[Mike Gallo]

Your move?

Call you have outs. Do not reraise because that will accomplish next to nothing.

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
Almost every time I have called down in this situation, it has been a waste of 3 BB's..

-Brian

[/ QUOTE ]

but this situation is different because you don't have to call on the river just because you call on the turn. you have the odds to draw on the turn.

I understand that the heart will not be good everytime it hits, but I think this situation is similar to something like splitting 8s against the dealers ten in blackjack; you dont make the play to win more money, as chances are you will lose. you make the play because you lose less if you make that play than you will if you just fold (hit or stand) every time.

if you dont think the pot odds justify a call, unimproved, on the river, you can fold.