How many outs do I have?

[Ed Miller]

Yesterday there was a situation where I mentioned that if the turn card had been a higher card, it might change my decision to call or fold. Several of you posted asking what having a higher card had to do with it... which leads me to the conclusion that some of you guys need a little more practice reading boards. So here it is... it's a little quiz. In each situation, our hero is behind and needs to improve on the river. Your job is to tell me how many outs he has to improve to a win, and how many outs he has to improve to a chop. Each item is in the order: hero's hand, foe's hand, board.

1. A /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif . . A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

2. A /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif . . A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

3. A /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif . . K /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif . . K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

4. A /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . K /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif . . K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

5. A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif . . 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif . . J /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

6. A /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif . . A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif . . A /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

7. A /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif . . A /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . A /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

8. A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . A /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif . . A /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

9. Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif . . 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif . . A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

T. A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif . . 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif . . 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I'll post the answers in a bit. Feel free to take a shot...

[Jezebel]

1. 3 outs
2. 3 outs
3. 6 outs
4. 6 outs
5. 12 outs
6. 6 outs
7. 12 outs
8. 48 outs
9. 16 outs
10. 9 outs

Go ahead and make fun of me. I'm sure I missed a few /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ElSapo]

I quit doing quizes in high school. And this one makes my head hurt... But...

To Win -- To Chop

1. 3 -- 0
2. 3 -- 6
3. 9 -- 0
4. 8 -- 0
5. 12 - 0
6. 3 - 6
7. 0 - 15
8. 2 - 39
9. 4 - 0
10. 6 - 3

I admit, my head is now spinning. This is why I refuse to go to grad school. I'm sure I missed some here. Probably a lot. I like #8 though...

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

I'll bite.

1: 3 outs to the win, the three remaining 2's.

2: 3 outs to the win (3 2's), 20 outs to the chop (3 9's, 4 10's, 4 J's, 4 Q's, 3 K's, 2 A's)

3: 3 outs to the win (3 A's)

4: 8 outs to the win (2 A's, 3 T's, 3 7's)

5: 6 outs to the win (3 A's, 3 Q's)

6: 3 outs to the win (3 2's), 6 outs to the chop (3 Q's, 3 6's)

7: 3 outs to the *chop* (1 A, 2 8's)

8: 2 outs to the win (2 2's), 3 outs to the chop (1 A, 2 8's)

9: 4 outs to the win (2 A's, 2 Q's)

10: 7 outs to the win (3 A's, 3 K's, 1 2), 3 outs to the chop (3 8's)

[chim17]

Let's see, I definately need some work but figured I'd try.

Hand 1: 3 2's win it (3)
Hand 2: 3 2's win it (3)
Hand 3: 3 aces, 3 T's, 3 7's win (9)
Hand 4: 2 Aces, 3 T's, 3 7's win (8)
Hand 5: 3 Aces, 3 Q'S, 3 8's, 3 4's win (12)
Hand 6: 3 2's win(3)
Hand 7: 3 2's (3), 2 8's chop (2)
Hand 8: 2 Aces (2), 2 8's (2) win, any card besides 2, 8, A chop (10)
Hand 9: 2 Q's, 2 Aces win (4)
Hand T: 3 A's, 3 K's win (6), 1 2, 2 8's chop (3)

Probably have some erros but had a bit of time before work.

Thanks for this exercise, will like to see where I was wrong.

[Rico Suave]

I will open myself up for ridicule.

I list win outs first and then chop outs

1. 3 6
2. 3 9
3. 9 0
4. 8 0
5. 12 0
6. 3 6
7. 0 3
8. 2 3
9. 4 0
10. 7 3

--Rico

[PseudoPserious]

1: 3 wins (the 2s) / 0 chops
2: 3 wins (the 2s) / 22 chops (1 A, 3 Ks, 4 Qs, 4 Js, 4 Ts, 3 9s, 3 4s)
3: 9 wins (3 As, 3 Ts, 3 7s) / 0 chops
4: 8 wins (2 As, 3 Ts, 3 7s) / 0 chops
5: 12 wins (3 As, 3 Qs, 2 8s, 2 4s) / 0 chops
6: 3 wins (the 2s) / 14 chops (4 Ks, 3 Qs, 4 Js, 3 6s)
7: 0 wins / 15 chops (1 A, 4 K2, 4 Qs, 4 Js, 2 8s)
8: 2 wins (the 2s) / 42 chops (everything else)
9: 0 wins / 4 chops (2 As, 2 Qs)
10: 7 wins (3 As, 3 Ks, the case 2) / 3 chops (the 8s)

PP

[Jezebel]

This exercise reminds me of one of those physcology jedi mind trick tests that make you feel like a dumb ass after you take it. I submit the following: /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Count how many "F"s are in the following statement

FINISHED FILES ARE THE RE-
> SULT OF YEARS OF SCIENTIF-
> IC STUDY COMBINED WITH THE
> EXPERIENCE OF YEARS...(see below)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Managed it ?
> Scroll down only after you have counted them, okay?
> Do you think there are three?
>
>>
>
>
> Wrong, there are 6 !!--no joke.
> Read it again.

[Nottom]

Edit: I figured I would expand my answers since people seem to be strugling with the more than I would have thought.

1) 3 to win (3-2s), 6 to chop (3- 7s, 4s) - ack, I missed this one the first time
2) 3 to win (3-2s), 21 to chop (4 - Qs, Js, Ts, 3- Ks, 9s, 4s)
3) 9 to win (3-As, Ts, 7s), 0 to chop
4) 8 to win (3-Ts, 7s, 2-As), 0 to chop
5) 12 to win (3-As, Qs, 8s, 4s), 0 to chop
6) 3 to win (3-2s), 14 to chop (4-Ks, Js, 3-Qs, 6s) -Boo! I missed this one too!
7) 0 to win, 5 to chop (3-As, 2-8s) - I don't know what I was thinking the first time here.
8) 2 to win (2-2s), 42 to chop (Everything else, a 3 gives you both As over 8s with a 3 kicker)
9) 4 to win (2-As, 2-Qs), 0 to chop
10) 7 to win (3-As, Ks, 1-2), 3 to chop (3-8s)

[PseudoPserious]

That's not fair. 'of' isn't a real word. Trust me on that. I have sources.

[ElSapo]

I admit, my head is now spinning. This is why I refuse to go to grad school. I'm sure I missed some here.

Already I'm looking at this and can see about 97 outs I missed on some of these hands. Well, that was embaressing.

You guys see The Water Boy, when the guy keeps telling Adam Sandler not to answer? In my head, I was saying "don't do it, don't do it..."

[Schneids]

win/chop

1. 3/6
2. 3/21
3. 9/0
4. 9/0
5. 12/0
6. 3/6
7. 0/3
8. 2/42
9. 4/0
10. 7/3

[josie_wales]

Assuming that you mean "outs" as being "ways to not still be losing, then....

1)3
2)18
3)9
4)8
5)12
6)8
7)15
8)44
9)4
10)10

[PseudoPserious]

BTW, thanks for making this 'easier' by making sure there weren't any straights or flushes to complicate things even more.

PP

[Nottom]

Wow, that was retarded ... i stared at that thing for like 5 min before I figured out I was an idiot.

[Ed Miller]

1. 3 wins (deuces) - 6 chops (sevens, fours)
2. 3 wins (deuces) - 22 chops (ace, kings, queens, jacks, tens, nines, fours)
3. 9 wins (aces, tens, sevens) - 0 chops
4. 8 wins (aces, tens, sevens) - 0 chops
5. 12 wins (aces, queens, eights, fours) - 0 chops
6. 3 wins (deuces) - 14 chops (kings, queens, jacks, sixes)
7. 0 wins - 15 chops (ace, kings, queens, jacks, eights)
8. 2 wins (deuces) - 42 chops (every other card in the deck)
9. 4 wins (aces, queens) - 0 chops
T. 7 wins (aces, kings, deuce) - 3 chops (eights)

[TheRake]

MK,
didn't look at anyone elses post before i guessed so I had oppertunity to be equally embarrassed /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

1.) 3 wins...6chops
2.) 3wins...11chops
3.) 9 wins...0 chops
4.) 8 wins...0 chops
5.) 12 wins...0chops
6.) 2 wins...14 chops
7.) 2 wins...15 chops
8.) 2 wins...42 chops
9.) 4 wins..0 chops
10.) 7 wins...3 chops

TheRake

[Ed Miller]

BTW, thanks for making this 'easier' by making sure there weren't any straights or flushes to complicate things even more.

Hehe.. I did this for a reason... not just to be a bastard. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nottom]

Damn, I went back to fix mine and still forgot the A on 2 and the highcards on 7. Bah.

[ramjam]

1. 3
2. 3 win, 7 chop
3. 9
4. 8
5. 12
6. 3 win, 14 chop
7. 0 win, 16 chop
8. 2 win, 42 chop
9. 4
10. 7 win, 3 chop

[Sleepy Weasel]

Started reading responses, then realized the answer was down there, so here goes my attempt without reading any further:

1) 3 wins (2), 6 chops (7, 4)
2) 3 wins (2), 22 chops (A, K, Q, J, T, 9, 4)
3) 9 wins (A, T, 7), 0 chops
4) 8 wins (A, T, 7), 0 chops
5) 12 wins (A, Q, 8, 4), 0 chops
6) 3 wins (2), 14 chops (K, Q, 7, 6)
7) 0 wins, 15 chops (A, K, Q, J, 8)
8) 2 wins (2), 39 chops (A, K, Q, J, T, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4)
9) 4 wins (A, Q), 0 chops
T) 6 wins (A, K), 3 chops (8)

Thanks major, this was a good exercise, and eye opening, now I get to check my answers (whee!).

p.s. I think its funny that you used "T" as 10 in this context /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Sleepy Weasel]

Damn, missed the deuce on the last one (must have gotten tired), and miscounted the rest of the cards in #8 (that one is embarassing).

Edit: Oh! I see, in #8 I actually missed the 3s as chop outs...very clever

[MaxPower]

1. A /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif . . A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Wins - 3, Ties - 6

2. A /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif . . A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Wins - 3, Ties - 22

3. A /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif . . K /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif . . K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Wins - 9 Ties - 0

4. A /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . K /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif . . K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Wins - 8 Ties - 0

5. A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif . . 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif . . J /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Wins - 12, Ties - 0

6. A /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif . . A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif . . A /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Wins - 3, Ties - 14

7. A /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif . . A /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . A /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Wins - 0 Ties - 13

8. A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif . . A /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif . . A /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Wins - 2, Ties - 41

9. Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif . . 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif . . A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Wins - 4, Ties - 0

T. A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif . . 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif . . 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Wins - 7 Ties - 3

That was fun, give us some more. I probably made a mistake somewhere.

[Saborion]

Hmm... I was wrong on many of the hands due to not thinking about "all the high, non-pairing cards" that would make me chop. Gave me plenty more outs. Lesson learned.

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]
8. 2 wins (deuces) - 42 chops (every other card in the deck)


[/ QUOTE ]

Major, am I nuts or doesn't the hero lose if a 3 comes on the river?

OK, I am nuts. A 3 is a chop. Duh.

I blame it on lack of sleep.

[DeuceKicker]

I'm 80% certain that 70% of these are wrong:

---Wins---Chops
1....3....6
2....3....9
3....9....0
4....8....6
5....6....6
6....2....14
7....0....15
8....2....41
9....4....0
10...7....3

[Wingnut]

There are tons of answers before my post, but I'll give it a shot anyway...

1) 3 outs for win (any 2), 6 outs for chop (any 7, 4)

2) 3 outs for win (any 2), 10 outs for chop (any K, 9, 4, case A)

3) 9 outs for win (any A, T, 7), no chop possible

4) 8 outs for win (2 As, T, 7), no chop

5) 12 outs for win (any A, Q, 8, 4), no chop

6) 3 outs for win (any 2), 11 outs for chop (any Q, K, J)

7) 0 outs for win, 14 for chop (any A, K, Q, J)

8) 2 outs to win (any 2), chop with anything >= 4 (38?). Now that's what I call OUTS!

9) 4 outs to win (2 A, 2 Q), no chop

T) 7 outs to win (any A, K, case 2), 3 to chop (any 8)

Geez...this WAS harder than it looks.

[DeuceKicker]

Max,

You're right, so that subtracts 2 from the possible chops, but the last Ace also causes a chop, bringing the total to 41... unless I'm wrong.

[MaxPower]

Nah, actually I was wrong. If a 3 comes on the river, they both play the board.

I edited my post before your reply. Sorry for misleading you.

4 hours of sleep the other night, pounding headache, its 5 degrees in NY, and I feel the flu coming on - Those are my excuses.

[Sleepy Weasel]

Yeah, they would both have AA883. I was just thinking about how cool this hand is. You're "behind" on the turn, but in reality you're freerolling. Sweet.

[slavic]

1) 3 outs to win 6 to a split 35 to a loss
2) 3 to a win, 22 to a split, 19 to a loss
3) 9 to a win, 35 to a loss
4) 8 to a win, 36 to a loss
5) 12 to a win, 32 to a loss
6) 3 to a win, 14 ties, 27 losses
7) 0 wins, 15 ties, 29 losses
8) 2 wins, 42 ties , 0 losses
9) 4 wins, 0 ties, 40 losses
T) 7 wins, 3 ties, 34 losses

[me454555]

Hand 1: 3 outs for the win, 6 outs for the split
Hand 2: 3 outs to win, 10 outs to split
Hand 3: 9 outs to win, 0 to split
Hand 4: 8 outs to win, 0 to split
Hand 5: 12 outs to win, 0 to split
Hand 6: 2 outs to win, 14 to split
Hand 7: 0 outs to win, 15 to split
Hand 8: 2 outs to win, 39 to split
Hand 9: 4 outs to win, 0 to split
Hand 10: 7 outs to win, 3 to split

[fluff]

1) 3 outs to win (any 2), any 7, 4 to chop.
2) 3 outs to win (any 2), any A, K, 9, 4 to chop.
3) 9 outs to win (any A, T, 7).
4) 8 outs to win (any A, T, 7).
5) 6 outs to win (any A, Q).
6) 3 outs to win (any 2), any Q or 6 to chop.
7) 0 outs to win, any A or 8 to chop.
8) 2 outs to win (any 2), anything higher than a 2 to chop.
9) 4 outs to win (any A, Q).
T) 7 outs to win (Any A, K, 2) any 8 to chop.

Great quiz by the way! Thanks for posting it!!

Edit: Bleh, I see I screwed up 2 and 5... /images/graemlins/blush.gif
@%$@$#% and number 7 too!! Back to play money for me...

[TBone]

Win / Chop

1) 3 / 3
2) 3 / 6
3) 9 / 0
4) 8 / 0
5) 6 / 0
6) 3 / 14
7) 0 / 5
8) 2 / 3
9) 2 / 2
10) 6 / 4

[TBone]

I haven't slept in a week, that's my excuse. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Excellent post kong.

T

[BugsBunny]

Haven't looked at any of the other posts yet.

1) 3 outs - only one of the remaining 2's will give a win. No way to chop.
2) 3 outs to win (2's) 6 outs to chop (any K or 9)
3) 9 outs to win (any A, T, or 7) no chop
4) 6 outs to win (As, Tsd, any 7) no chop
5) 12 outs to win (any A,Q, 8 or 4) no chop
6) 3 outs to win (any 2) 6 outs to chop (any Q or 6)
7) no way to win 4 outs to chop (any A or 8)
8) 2 outs to win (any 2) (40 outs to chop) any card other than a 3 or 2
9) 4 outs to win (any Q or A) no chop
10) 7 outs to win (any A, K or 2) 3 cards to chop (any 8)

That's my shot - should double check it but what the hey /images/graemlins/smile.gif We'll see how I did

Bah humbug don't know why I saw a flush possibility in #4 - must need glasses. I got the wins right (except for that one). I'm *real* upset that I missed so many chops. Should have printed the thing out and done it that way. Would have missed some anyway - but a lot less I suspect. Oh well - good post Major.

[Trix]

1: 3
2: 3, 22
3: 9
4: 8
5: 12
6: 3, 11
7: 3, 15
8: 2, 39
9: 4
10: 7, 3

Nice post..

[Dov]

MajorKong:

Your posts are some of the best poker advice I have ever seen or heard anywhere.

Thank you so much for your time and effort.

[CMangano]

Hand 1 - he needs a deuce to win and the board to pair to chop (but not an A).

Hand 2 - a deuce to win and any card higher than an 8 to chop.

Hand 3 - Any A, T or 7 will win it for him, he can't chop.

Hand 4 - Any A, T or 7 will win, he can't chop.

Hand 5 - Any A, Q, 8 or 4 will win, he can't chop.

Hand 6 - Only a deuce will win, a 6 will chop.

Hand 7 - can't win, an 8 will chop.

Hand 8 - An A or a deuce will win, any other card chops.

Hand 9 - An A or a Q will win, can't chop.

Hand 10 - An A, K or deuce will win, can't chop.

[Ed Miller]

I think some of the new posters haven't seen this, and I'm beginning to see people make these mistakes again.

[Ralph Wiggum]

1. 3,0
2. 3,16
3. 9,0
4. 8,0
5. 12,0
6. 3,14
7. 0,15
8. 2,42
9. 4,0
T. 7,3

[Saborion]

I was happy to see this post, thinking that it was a new one since I already have the old one saved up in a .doc.
But alas, it's the same. Doesn't matter that much though, since the best practise someone can get is to make a few like this by themselves. That post post sure is a nice one, and I hope you include something similar to it in your book since many new players should need it.

[Tosh]

Ed, be a star and make a new quiz with flushes and straights. I would but I'm lazy, besides I wanna do the quiz.

[Ed Miller]

Ed, be a star and make a new quiz with flushes and straights. I would but I'm lazy, besides I wanna do the quiz.

Check back with me after the book is out. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Peter Harris]

Fantastic, Ed, that's what we need. It never occurred to me of the higher probability of chops with higher board cards.

This quiz is like a new revelation, like thursday when my girlfriend began to understand Bourdieu a week before her exam on post-structuralism.

If the book is full of stuff like this, i reckon you should charge royalties in all 2+2ers games. a flat fee would be -EV, surely?!

Thanks again for the quiz,
Peter Harris

[Surfbullet]

1. 3 outs to win - all 2s

6 outs to chop - three 4s, three 7’s


2. 3 outs to win - 2s

9 outs to chop - three of: Kings, 9s, 4s


3. 9 outs to win - three of:Aces, Tens, 7s

0 - no chop


4. 8 outs to win - two aces, three Tens, three 7s

0 - no chop


5. 12 outs to win - three aces, three fours, three queens, three 8s.

0 - no chop


6. 2 outs to win - two 2s

14 outs to chop - four Kings, four Jacks, three 6s, three queens


7. 0 - can’t win

15 outs to chop - one Ace, two 8s, four Kings, four Queens, four Jacks


8. 2 outs to win - two 2s

39 outs to chop- one Ace, four Kings, four Queens, four Jacks, four Tens, four nines, two 8s, four 7s, four 6s, four 5s, four 4s (the only card that causes a loss is one of two 3s)


9. 4 outs to win - two Queens, two Aces

0 - no chop


10. 7 outs to win - three Aces, three Kings, one two

3 outs to chop - three 8s

I think you posted the answers already but I wanted to have a go before I checked em /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Excellent post BTW!

Dan

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
(the only card that causes a loss is one of two 3s)


[/ QUOTE ]

Recheck that bud! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]

Check back with me after the book is out. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Dang. *checks watch, twiddles thumbs and waits*

[ddubois]

OMG, I think I got every single chop list wrong.