BB+Rags+2OC+ISD (Hand History)

[Styles]

True $1/$2, 10 seats.

Hero is in the BigBlind Dealt 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

MP1 OpenLimps, MP2, MP3, CO, and Button Call, Blinds Check, $7 Pot, 7 Players

Flop 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero Checks, MP1 Checks, MP2 Bets, Called Around to Hero who Raises, MP1 Folds, MP3 Folds, Remaining Call, $18 Pot, 5 Players

Turn 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero Bets, MP2 and Button Call, $24 Pot, 3 Players

River 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero Bets, MP2 Folds, Button Calls, $28 Pot

Button Shows 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

MHIG +$27

I didn't plan for a check-raise here, it just seemed correct once I saw the bet come in EP and a long line of M/LPPs Call. Should I have tried to wait to check-raise the Turn instead? I thought I better raise while I was probably ahead, but, obviously no one in was gonna fold, so if the Turn card hurt me, nothing I would do now would help.

[LaggyLou]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't plan for a check-raise here, it just seemed correct once I saw the bet come in EP and a long line of M/LPPs Call. Should I have tried to wait to check-raise the Turn instead? I thought I better raise while I was probably ahead, but, obviously no one in was gonna fold, so if the Turn card hurt me, nothing I would do now would help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why did you believe you were ahead with an 8 high gutshot straight and backdoor flush draw?

[Rico Suave]

Hey Stylish:

I am a bit confused. You c/r the flop with a gut shot and a backdoor flush draw? Surely you did not do that. And the turn card did not hurt you, it gave you top pair.

--Rico

[Styles]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Stylish:

I am a bit confused. You c/r the flop with a gut shot and a backdoor flush draw? Surely you did not do that. And the turn card did not hurt you, it gave you top pair.

--Rico


[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't comprehend my confusing post? LOL

I did not "check-raise", or plan it. I checked with the intention of maybe calling and based on the play and where the 1st bet came from decided to raise.

I meant if I was hit the most with the Flop the turn could get really ugly if it hit someone.

So my question is really after I checked and all those people limped in on front of me, and I realized a check-raise might be good value, should I have resisted and just called and taken a look at the Turn. If I check-raised the turn they probably would have seen the River anyway, I don't think it matters.

Mostly I liked the flop, thought it gave me a great chance to have the best hand if I hit one of my many outs and wanted to build a big pot to make it worthwhile when the situation just "presented itself".

I sort of combined information from the Turn into my thinking on the Flop which seems confusing. I did not mean to say I considered check-raising the turn on the flop. When I saw the Turn I thought gee, if I had known I would have waited and check-raised that.

[Styles]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't plan for a check-raise here, it just seemed correct once I saw the bet come in EP and a long line of M/LPPs Call. Should I have tried to wait to check-raise the Turn instead? I thought I better raise while I was probably ahead, but, obviously no one in was gonna fold, so if the Turn card hurt me, nothing I would do now would help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why did you believe you were ahead with an 8 high gutshot straight and backdoor flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

a read based on the rank of the flop, the chances it missed everyone and they were calling with only OCs, and
HPFAP pg 115 and pg 284 regarding 2OC+ISD

AND that all those people just called. Pretty weak.

and I was right /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[chim17]

I think you were behind on the flop, is a gutshot really reason to qualify ahead in the hand? Most likely you won't hit it and lose to the many overcards that are out there.

[Styles]

I realize I wasn't "ahead" to ace-high, but, if they did have OC and in the "zone" they were probably stepping on each other and any one of them had 3 or 4 clean outs.

I had at least triple the odds anyone else did and decided to raise and see if they would fold or reraise.

This is sort of my Kong hand in my opinion, I had alot of people in, felt they missed, took an aggressive move at building and possily winning a big pot.

So I felt ahead - that's my story and I'm sticking to it /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[rkiray]

Well, I like this answer much better than the earlier because I didn't think that your end of the original post answers those questions. I think you are misapplying a section of HPFAP. Remember it's written for tough mid-limit games in general. The section you are working from is the semi-bluff section. At a typical True 1/2 game (or most microlimit games for that matter) you should almost never bluff or semi-bluff. You just get called down too much. S&M do not recommend this play because they think they are ahead (and I believe there is no way you are ahead), it's a good play against people who will sometimes make tough laydowns. You also missed the part about small number of opponents (I define this as 1 or 2, and even in a tough game I almost never bluff against more than this (every now and then I will semibluff against 3)

[Styles]

Yes, you are right.

I didn't explain my thoughts well AND I saw and remembered the few opponents when I looked up the references. I already stated I knew none would fold so you are right stupid to semi-bluff. In my head, I just saw 2OC+ISD = Strong Hand and I am trying to be more aggressive postflop. It was just weird I saw that bet and all those MP and LP players only call in line and felt "they got chit and all the big cards are in there hands not in the deck, RAISE"

I guess I "felt lucky" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ok, I won't do it again ...

[Wingnut]

By my calculations, pot was laying him 12-to-1 on an 11-to-1 nut draw, with only one more player to act after him. Enough odds for the call, but the raise was probably not warranted.