Newbie Critique : Part II

[ComedyLimp]

In the previous discussion (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=469181& fpart=&PHPSESSID=) of my newbie play it became clear that I had played my TPWK in the SB much too passively and, although I won the hand, I had got lucky and had much to improve in the way I played it.

Last night I had something of the opposite problem. Again I apologise if this is all too obvious and commonplace for your consideration but the previous analysis was very helpful and this is to some extent the result of me trying to apply that adivce so hopefully it might be of interest.

Table is loose/passive, £1/£2, I have been in for about 15 uneventful hands. I am SB and get dealt A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif

4 limpers, I call in the SB, BB raises. Everybody calls.

Flop comes: K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

This is good for me and, I think to myself, all I really fear is that the raiser has AK, AQ or AJ or AA or KK. I am out of position but remembering the be aggressive and bet for information advice from 2+2, I bet.

Pre-flop rasier to my left calls (which is good surely and I must now be in the lead if he's not raising), 1 fold, three calls. Pot is now 25.75 or 13 BB.

Turn is J /images/graemlins/club.gif (K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif)

Which looks a bit straighty and there's an improbable BD backdoor flush brewing but I am still favourite and I don't want to fall into me previous weak check-call behaviour so I bet again. Everyone calls.

River is 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Which I like (what's that opposite of a 'scare' card?). I bet, pre-flop raiser calls, fold, fold, button raises.

I am more than a little surprised by this, I call (I have to here surely?) and he lays down 10 :spades: Q :hearts: for the A high str8.

So -- where did I go wrong?

Should I should have check-raised somewhere? I can't see how I can check-raise the flop as I know there are a number of hands the raiser to my left can have that have me beat.

I suppose I could also check-raise the turn but at the time I figure might not get a bet to raise if I do this and in retrospect it would have been even worse as I would probably have been re-raised.

Looking at the play of the button, he didn't raise me on the turn even though he had made his straight. Did he do this deliberately knowing a raise would drive everyone out but just calling meant he could raise my inevitable bet on the river? If so how can I defened this sort of thing? Should I put him in my list of players to be wary off in the future?

Also if had raised my turn bet should I have put him on the straight and folded or called and checked-called on the river just to avoid be forced out of future hands by any remotely scarey cards.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

[Bob T.]

You did fine. You just don't get to win every hand.

[Tosh]

You played fine.

[Joe Tall]

You played fine. Nice post.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[ComedyLimp]

Gosh I did somehting right? I'll have to have a sit down to recover.

Thanks.

PS How 'bout them Patriots eh Joe?

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
How 'bout them Patriots eh Joe?

[/ QUOTE ]

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHOO! It will be 10 degrees on Saturday, the Pats are used to it!

Peace,
Joe Tall

[ComedyLimp]

I think I like the Titans to beat the spread (6pts) though -- two tough defences, cold weather, McNair factor says the Titans will keep it close to me.

The single sports bet I am most proud of was £20 @ 9/1 on the Pats when they beat the Rams in the Superbowl XXXVI.

(Oops off-topic)

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Should I should have check-raised somewhere? I can't see how I can check-raise the flop as I know there are a number of hands the raiser to my left can have that have me beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. You want to bet out here. If the BB raises you, that's not necessarily a bad thing, since everyone else will have to call two cold. The pot is big, your hand is vulnerable, and so your modus operandi should be to do whatever you can to limit the field and maximize your chance of winning. If the BB *hadn't* raised before the flop, then a checkraise might have been worth considering, but I'd still probably bet out.

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose I could also check-raise the turn but at the time I figure might not get a bet to raise if I do this and in retrospect it would have been even worse as I would probably have been re-raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need a stronger hand that TPMK to consider check-raising the turn against that many opponents. That move should be reserved for when you're quite certain that you're ahead.

[ QUOTE ]
Looking at the play of the button, he didn't raise me on the turn even though he had made his straight. Did he do this deliberately knowing a raise would drive everyone out but just calling meant he could raise my inevitable bet on the river? If so how can I defened this sort of thing? Should I put him in my list of players to be wary off in the future?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have raised the turn, if I were him. He hit his hand, nothing you can do about that.

[ QUOTE ]
Also if had raised my turn bet should I have put him on the straight and folded or called and checked-called on the river just to avoid be forced out of future hands by any remotely scarey cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd check-call unless he's an absolute rock.

[ QUOTE ]
So -- where did I go wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing you *might* consider is check/calling on the river. With three callers and a board like that, it's worth being a little bit suspicious.

Check/calling the river does a couple of things for you:

1. You might induce a bluff from weaker aces or anyone whose draw has missed.

2. If someone else has a very strong hand and is slowplaying, you will only put one bet into the pot rather than two.