Playing against a set

In low limit loose games, where anywhere from 5-8 people see the flop (whether it is raised or not), anyone with any pair is going to stay in (and rightly so, I believe). It is very common to see players play 2's, 3's etc. and flop a set. Also, even if they don't flop a set they will, for one small bet, see the turn and sometimes hit their set. This is a big money drain for me. Common example; I have A-K and raise pre-flop. 6 players call. Flop is A-K-4. Checked to raiser(me). I bet. 3 callers. Turn is 6. I bet and get raised. I call, river is x. I check. Raiser bets. I call. Raiser has a set of 4's. (I guess I really knew it) Or, if they did'nt flop a 4, they will see 1 small bet and hit it on the turn. This seems to be very common in these games. In HFAP, S and M recommend Keeping the pot smaller, or holding off bets and raises to the turn so that the player drawing is making a mistake. This is not always possible. Can anyone shed any more light on the subject with any other recommendations on how to handle these situations. Thanx ahead.

When people slowplay sets, count yourself lucky because they missed out on bets they could have had and gave you cheap opportunities to draw out on them. In the first example, what would you do if the set raised you? Hopefully you would reraise with your top two. Set would cap on the flop. You are then getting horrible odds on the flop to draw to your 4-outer. Instead, this yo-yo slowplays his set and you pay 1 bet to a pot that already has 14 bets in it, giving you attractive odds to draw to a 4-outer. If you flop top two and someone flops a set, you will lose money. If they don't slowplay, you will lose more.


Hitting a set on the turn is a 2-outer or 22.5-1 against. If he is paying a bet to see a card with less than 22 bets in the pot, he is making a mistake and, in doing so, handing you money. If this still bothers you, then make sure you always protect your vulnerable hands with a bet or raise.

"If they don't slowplay, you will lose more. "


waiting for the turn is very viable when you think someone will bet the turn. that way you can raise and charge them an extra sb for the draw to the river.


one reason i play sets fast isnt necesarily to 'charge' them, but to get money in on my draw to a FH. if the pots big your flop raise isnt gettin anyone out, and it will likely be checked to you on the turn. just calling the flop then raising the turn really puts pressure on anyone drawing to the str8 or flush. no matter what, your flop raise isnt stopping the turn from coming. so its a matter of maximize and protect.


"Set would cap on the flop."


so would i if i had top 2, but i may wait for the turn also. id also cap on a 2 tone with a top/mid pair and flush draw.


"You are then getting horrible odds on the flop to draw to your 4-outer"


in general, im not thinking set until the turn raise. if the board is 2-tone, someone could be jamming a flush draw. which would slow down on the turn usually. im not thinking that im drawing here. ill save that thought for the turn.


this play works very well in loose games when you see the spots.


knowledge of players is another key. some wont bet without a fantastic hand. thats a little different situation that you can adjust accordingly.


some thoughts


b

I think it's rarely right to slowplay a set on the flop, especially if the pot is big. I would only even consider slowplaying a set if there were no flush/straight draws.


Of course you don't think that you are drawing to outs with top two even if the flop gets capped. The point of my post was to assure Ronm that people playing like this aren't a "big money drain for him" as he mentioned in his post. If his opponent had played the set more conventionally, he would have lost more on this hand.


People who allow you cheap draws while paying too much to draw themselves (the "turn set" example from his post) are where the money comes from in poker. They are most definitely NOT a money drain.

"If his opponent had played the set more conventionally, he would have lost more on this hand"


maybe, but definitely not for sure.


again..look carefully at how the set played. not knowing what the other guy had, and thats for each of them. Say the AK was AQ, if he gets raised on the flop, he may just check to the raiser. from what happened, the AK got charged 2 bb on the turn. thats a big charge when in hindsight he was drawing to 4 outs. i also dont know how ronm plays and if hed go balls out on the flop.


count the bets made and the possibilities likely to occur, especially not knowing eachothers hands, you may be suprised to see the result...remember the AK got charged 2.5 bb on the flop and turn. thats a pretty good amount really. if he knows he may have top 2, then the raise on the flop may work, but you may also be trading spots where your collecting...


when i see ya next, remind me, and ill let ya know where to find this concept.


if i was in this hand, i would put ronm on an A high kick, but not necesarily the AK. especially after the turn. i may very well put him on AQ. you know he has the A, but since he slowed on the turn, i cant really put him on AK. i may have 3 bet AK here. *no indication of a flush possible*


he also doesnt mention how many callers called his turn bet AND the turn raise. if there were 2 or 3 callers trapped in between here, the set made a huge pot.


some ideas...


b

You are against players who are by accident playing this situation correctly. You should do the same.


MM

maybe for some of the players he's facing it's not an accident...


b

"In HFAP, S and M recommend Keeping the pot smaller, or holding off bets and raises to the turn so that the player drawing is making a mistake. This is not always possible"


why isnt it always possible? what forces you to bet the flop? im not sure what you mean here.


b