Hand I'm Not Sure About #2

[Tosh]

$2/$4 online game. BB is a moderate player. EMP is a poor player. No reads on UTG +1 or SB.

I get K /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif on the button. UTG +1 and EMP limp and I do too. SB completes and BB raises. We all call.

*** Dealing Flop: 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif ***

BB bets, UTG +1 raises, EMP folds, and I cold call. SB cold calls as well, BB 3 bets and we all call.

*** Dealing Turn: 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif ***

BB bets, we both call.

*** Dealing River: K /images/graemlins/spade.gif ***

BB bets, we both call.

[CrackerZack]

Ugh

did i mention ugh?

don't limp with marginal hands if you'll shoot yourself in the foot post flop. By the looks of this shot, you're gonna walk with a limp. Onto the hand. I'm fine with the PF limp. the raise sucks but you're gonna see the flop. On the flop this is raise or fold time. I'd likely muck as the BB really seems to like his hand as does UTG and you really really don't want to 3-bet only to see it capped. once you make it past the flop the pot is huge and you picked up 2 backdoor draws. River hope the flush is good.

I fold this on the flop. Part of playing things like this and QJo etc after a couple of limpers is realizing you're hand is in a lot of trouble and escaping it.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh

did i mention ugh?


[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.

[slogger]

I may be over-aggressive in these situations, but if you're not going to 3-bet the flop w/ top pair decent kicker (and to gain information) here, you shouldn't have limped in to begin with.

Speaking of which, I don't really like the pre-flop limp. If this was Party, and I had your read of the EMP, I'd rather raise pre-flop because I assume my hand is best so far (and the SB or BB will likely let me know if it's not). Then it wouldn't be as difficult to decide how to play after the flop.

[Clarkmeister]

Easy raise pre-flop.

Given that you didn't, either 3-bet or fold on the flop with folding being a bit preferable.

[rharless]

Aye carumba!!

I thought this type of stuff happened only to me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think the PF limp is fine if you are going to clear about your flop play approach, and it seems that you weren't. It seems that 3-betting or folding are both substantially better than calling.

That said, I think if you had raised PF on the tail of two limpers, one of whom you have stated is definitely poor, that this would have resulted in easier postflop decisions. I think with KJo I'd rather take the driver's seat against two opponents than be a passenger, albeit well-positioned, against four.

(Of course then BB probably 3-bets you, and you're now sitting on your rump, bumping around in the cargo area, but at least you're clear about the situation.)

I hope your J-high flush won, but it seems doubtful.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope your J-high flush won, but it seems doubtful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly it did. BB had AA and I felt disgusted with myself.

I pretty much knew how I should have played it straight away but posted for a bit of public flogging.

[rharless]

Dare I ask -- what did the 1st caller have?

[Tosh]

I don't actually know, he mucked and this site you can't find out.

[rharless]

Well, I guess we know that he at least couldn't beat two pair if he mucked when AA showed.

Keep playing at that site! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Sarge85]

Hmmm..few intial thoughts

Limping with KJ is poopy. From the button, its fold or raise time. (More apt to fold)

It's hard to get a clear picuture of the flop, but again it's raise or fold time. - the J /images/graemlins/spade.gif provides you with enough reason to call.

Turn - mixed blessing...hope for a spade

River - I'd raise, your behind one card here.

[Clarkmeister]

"Limping with KJ is poopy. From the button, its fold or raise time. (More apt to fold)"

Folding is very bad poker unless you are against very very tight limpers (almost never the case in LL games). Raising is better than limping. Limping better than folding.

[themul56]

I think just calling is very weak in this situation. If you think they have AK or KQ then fold otherwise riase and find out. I probably would not have played the hand in the first place, but that is just me. I probably would have folded the flop too. The rest is fine. Calling the turn when the flush hit is fine and calling the river is fine. Be glad you got lucky.

[Joe Tall]

I think I would fold or 3-bet the flop. I think you are out kicked or out-right beaten vs AA. In addition to the possibilty of the higher flush, I would fold the flop.

Peace,
Joe Tall