am i a skirt?

[morgant]

two orbits into the table, so no reads...advice appreciated



***** Hand History for Game 318386948 *****
3/6 TEXASHTGAMETABLE (LIMIT) - MON JAN 05 22:12:04 EST 2004
Table Card Room Table 1983 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: jarusso ( $69)
Seat 2: CRZYCRZN ( $84)
Seat 6: RoterHund ( $26)
Seat 7: miraclejack ( $150)
Seat 8: greedyswede ( $182)
Seat 9: Eckmon21 ( $41)
RoterHund posts small blind (1)
miraclejack posts big blind (3)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to greedyswede [ Qh, Qc ]
greedyswede raises (6) to 6
Eckmon21 calls (6)
jarusso folds.
CRZYCRZN folds.
RoterHund raises (8) to 9
miraclejack folds.
greedyswede raises (6) to 12
Eckmon21 calls (6)
RoterHund calls (3)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ks, 4h, 9s ]
RoterHund checks.
greedyswede bets (3)
Eckmon21 calls (3)
RoterHund calls (3)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4c ]
RoterHund checks.
greedyswede bets (6)
Eckmon21 calls (6)
RoterHund raises (11) to 11
RoterHund calls all-In.
greedyswede folds.
Eckmon21 calls (5)
** Dealing River ** : [ 3h ]
Creating Main Pot with $73 with RoterHund
** Summary **
Main Pot: $73 | | Rake: $3
Board: [ Ks 4h 9s 4c 3h ]
jarusso balance $69, didn't bet (folded)
CRZYCRZN balance $84, didn't bet (folded)
Warik balance $150, sits out
crwofford balance $74, sits out
RoterHund balance $36.50, bet $26, collected $36.50, net +$10.50 [ As Th ] [ a pair of fours -- As,Ks,Th,4h,4c ]
miraclejack balance $147, lost $3 (folded)
greedyswede balance $161, lost $21 (folded)
Eckmon21 balance $51.50, bet $26, collected $36.50, net +$10.50 [ Tc Ah ] [ a pair of fours -- Ah,Ks,Tc,4h,4c ]
splitin8s balance $150, sits out
_____________________________

[SpaceAce]

Wow. Something about that hands just smells bad. I'd keep an eye on those two.

There was an overcard and a pair on the board. I don't see how you could possibly call that raise unless you knew the raiser was a nutcase. However, I think you should have bet more on the flop. Given the size of that pot, $3 is a pretty weak bet.

SpaceAce

[Joe Tall]

Hand histories suck....what happened?

I don't have time to decipher it.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[37offsuit]

Yeah, unfortunately, you need to go into mommy's closet and get one of her best dresses. If I read that all right, and I think I did, you threw in your hand after betting the turn 4c because a player raised you $5 all in and you had someone behind you still to act.

I would have reraised. It's only going to cost you $5 to call the all in. Likely, this cat was going to call but then figured since the guy in front of him also called your bet, then he might as well get his last $5 in now when he's most likely to get you both to call, hoping maybe you'll bet out on the river and force the other guy to fold giving him the best chance to win. When you folded, the guy behind him realized it wasn't going to cost him any more bets to see the river and showdown since you were already out of the hand.

A reraise here will likely put out the last guy to act, putting you heads up with All In for $5. If they both called your turn bet, then you'd likely bet out on the river anyway, which would cost you $6.

[MrBlini]

I thought of replying that if you're sitting at greedyswede's table, you maybe could use some improvement in table selection. Then I realized from the hand history that you probably already knew that greedyswede is a 2+2'er. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[MrBlini]

If the turn raiser weren't all-in, it might be a good fold. You're looking at $12 to call him down, and the K is pretty scary.

I wouldn't see it in the heat of battle, but reraising the turn appears correct. You have every reason to believe that you are ahead of the calling station in the middle.

This is a bizarre hand, but I'm not too suspcious. I'm inclined to think that the all-in player planned to call the river anyway and let it all ride on the last card.

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Something about that hands just smells bad. I'd keep an eye on those two.

[/ QUOTE ]

They both played the same hand against a UTG raiser, and continued to offer 2:1 on all bets with nothing. If this is collusion, I'd like to see more of it in my game.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Something about that hands just smells bad. I'd keep an eye on those two.

[/ QUOTE ]

They both played the same hand against a UTG raiser, and continued to offer 2:1 on all bets with nothing. If this is collusion, I'd like to see more of it in my game.


[/ QUOTE ]

I made a mistake. I thought this was a no limit game (wrong forum). I didn't realize that was just one more bet he put in. I was thinking that the hero could be facing yet another all-in behind him. Still, I don't often see two Ace-highs showing down after bets like that.

SpaceAce

[LetsRock]

Seems like a pretty weak fold to me.

The pot is pretty big.

The king is scary and the all-in guy was the other preflop raiser.
The 4 bugs me but I can't be too worried about 4s can I.

I don't think I would have had the courage to 3 bet the turn, but I think I'd would have had to call it down.

[37offsuit]

I think the second Ace high called because the Hero folded. It was $5 to him to call, knowing he couldn't get raised on the river. Pot odds would definately say call for the card and the show down, I would think.

[morgant]

yes i can be called sally after this fold, however, in a capped preflop pot is it unthinkable to worry about one of these two holding a king, not even ak, maybe kj, kq, hell suited kt doesnt seem off the charts here. the turn card did not scare me in the least, i figured both of these guys have position on me and the raise made me feel as if he waited for a more expensive street to raise his top pair(in the moment i did not weigh the all-in tendency into account, which i have used many times to make decisions before), heads up i was calling, but this guy who got stuck between us could very easily had a weak or even strong king for that matter, I wouldnt have gone that far in that pot without at least some decent form of made hand. those were my assumptions and you know what they say, don't assume it makes an ASS out of U and ME.
-morg

[themul56]

Yes you are a skirt. You always have to be wary of people who are low on money because they could play anything. But you also have to watch when they start raising. People low on money try to buy pots are just put all there money on anything and hope. I think calling down is definately the right play. Especially with the size of the pot.

[37offsuit]

I don't think that any of us are saying that you're crazy for thinking someone had the king, we're saying that even though you suspect that this might be the case, you were in control of the hand because your flop raise got respect (just called) and then you turned that strength in when you folded the turn. Remember pot odds, which say that you only have to be right on this move 1 out of say 10 times for it to be profitable. Generally, a check-raise on the turn is scary, but when it's someone going all in and you have someone limping along behind you, you might as well raise since even if the reraiser has you beat, he can't damage you anymore. You have to consider that he might have checked knowing he would either get the free card on the river if checked out, or if you continued to bet, he'd get the last player to act to call along, making the pot bigger than had he bet out now. And maybe, just maybe, you both fold to the check-raise. To think that both these players were slow playing top pair, even with weak kickers, doesn't fit the table you described, but even if it had, you've just got to call this one down.