...is a good player! $4-8

Semi-tough game - for LL, a few raises and generally people playing good cards and respecting raises. Three, sometimes four players seeing the flop.


A new player sits down on my immediate left. I don't know them (rare) and watch them pretty close. They are playing close to 40% of dealt hands and raking in almost half of those pots without a showdown! What's going on????? After a few rounds of this, I ask the player on my right what's going on and he tells me,".... is a good player."


A few hands later I am dealt KK utg +1. UTG folds, I raise, Good Player reraises and a few come in. I make it three bets, and folder to my right sighs about my reraise against Good Player. Good player is startled by reraise - unusual I thought.


Flop 2,4,9 suits not important. I bet, Good Player raises, one caller and I reraise.


Turn 8, suit not important. I check, bet, fold, and I checkraise. Good Player calls checkraise.


River is a 4, suit not important. Good Player slips with an obvious tell they didn't wish to give. I check, Good Player bets, I call.


Good Player turns over 42o for a full house. Player on my right, say's, "See, I told you .... is good!" I almost fell out of my chair!


Comments?

was this the only hand he played this way as far as starting? was he showing down alot prior to this? the only bad play was preflop...flop on he played fine. did he tighten up a little after this hand? what kind of hands did he showdown prior to this when he did showdown?


cant judge a guy from just one hand. i just looked back and you said:


"They are playing close to 40% of dealt hands and raking in almost half of those pots without a showdown! "


when the table is conforming to you in this way, thats the time to try one of these plays. he was running the table over it looks like. but once he's caught, NOW'S the time to see if he switches gears a little. of course, since he won, he may stay in that gear for a bit. since he did show down a winner, no matter what his holdings.


he may be a good player, but not for the reason that the guy on yer right thinks. look at how and why he may be playing the hands, not just what hes playing. with this much control over a table, it may not matter what his holdings if players are giving him pots.


or he could be just a maniac player on a streak. you should know that in due time if he plays this way when he is getting called down, and continues losing. and doesnt adjust for it.


some ideas...


b

looking at a globel picture.

Many players prematurely arrive at false conclusions about a player's ability by focusing on one or two aspects of his play without considering additional aspects. Sometimes if a good player is running well,he might decide to have a little

"fun" and throw a curve ball at his opponent(s).

Then if he is able to show down a winner with a "cheese play",he will then be pegged as a "fish"--great advertisement value!


Happy pokerinbg,

Sitting Bull

I had been at the table for about two hours and the table was about average. When this person sits down, it tightens way up, except this player who seems to almost never have seen a hand they didn't like. What surprised me about the whole thing was once this player sat down it was like part of the table went on automatic donate. I do not know any player I have played I would give this much respect to.


What amazed me was almost nobody was playing to the river when this player was in almost 5 of every ten hands! The other players for the most part would bet, call, and fold on the turn.


I have never seen anyone hold that much respect over a table just sitting down. When I (an unknown player to this player) raised, what would your action be if you held 42o against me raising? Even if you were running down the table would you call a unknown raiser with a hand like that? And the player on my right who was so brain dead to think that winning a hand with 42o against an raise makes a good player? They took on horrible odds, and ran a worse risk of losing this tremendous respect they seem to have acquired.


I was about speechless. I agree their postflop play was good, but I would not bestow a crown to this player for their splendid playing ability. The only conclusion I could come to was the willingness to raise and reraise (maniac tendencies) and not superior playing ability.


For whatever reasons, that was the only hand we were in together to the river. It was fascinating to me from a psycological perspective because it was very unusual.

"I have never seen anyone hold that much respect over a table just sitting down. When I (an unknown player to this player) raised, what would your action be if you held 42o against me raising?"


id be leary, but may test ya. see if your like the others. i wouldnt be calling though. itd be a reraise. but id also tend to do it with better cards. but it also can keep up appearances only going to the flop. lots of angles to work here.


" And the player on my right who was so brain dead to think that winning a hand with 42o against an raise makes a good player? They took on horrible odds, and ran a worse risk of losing this tremendous respect they seem to have acquired. "


the fact everyone is 'donating' could be why he played it. look at the effect that has already taken place on the table. he shows another big hand..FH..what is the table of unthinkers thinking now? the FH, not the 42o


if youve ever taken control of a table like this, its amazing from the other side too. ive done it, though not often, and you can see it on the opponents faces. they have a helpless look on their face.


"What surprised me about the whole thing was once this player sat down it was like part of the table went on automatic donate"


he may very well be a maniac, but he may also be taking advantage of his image. look at your quote above...wouldnt you like to be able to sit and do that to a table? 1 player on the table who realizes what this guys doing, wont take his EV down as much as the 8+ other 'donators' will raise it. especially since you wont be in nearly as many hands as the donators.


you couldve tried raising so hed call and try and get it HU since everyone was folding so much. kind of a reverse isolation. could backfire though. since you may not have had position on him, it can be tougher to play against him.


"And the player on my right who was so brain dead to think that winning a hand with 42o against an raise makes a good player? "


he's not seeing the 42o, hes seeing the FH. remember what the 'average' player is seeing. not the more educated player.


"They took on horrible odds, and ran a worse risk of losing this tremendous respect they seem to have acquired"


you dont necessarily want linear respectability. you want to switch gears. keep them guessing 'when' you have it. lets say they realize the cards hes actually playing instead of the results. once he sees them calling down more often, he could tighten up. then hes showing only better hands...respect starts growing again...


if he has the above abilities, and can adjust on the fly, he may be a very good player...a superior player does not let these openings just slide by and only play ABC. he spots the openings and bludgeons them.


but, again, he may also be a maniac on a nice run. its very, highly possible, and im not dicounting that. watch his post flop play more-so for that. thats where i start looking when against a player like this. many players can give up a little preflop and play off the flop very well. and a table like this could be ripe for it.


the compliment is " i cant put him on a hand"

not..."i have respect for his play so ill fold and only play the best when hes in"


its a game of profit, not respect.


some ideas....


b

This guy sounds like a lucky fish, and they guy you were talking to on your right sounds like a moron....


It is possibly that this player is ok, and maybe just messing around playing baby limits, (some mid-high limit players play crazy at 4-8), but about 98% of the time the guy is going to turn out to be a fish. Threebetting and early raiser with 42o in a 4-8 game has a horrible expectation, its not the type of variance play a good player would almost ever make.


GL


Shawn Keller

You should love the fact he stays in with 42 against your k's after a reraise. He was probably on a hot streak or was advertising a hand which turned out to be the winning hand. Either way, this is a big fish i want sitting at my table.

Bernie makes some really valid points that I would not have considered. If it were me in the drivers seat on this one I probably would have folded the hand against a raise. Either way it was somehting to see. Maybe some of it rubbed off on me.

if he puts you on big and realises you think he is playing far more than his share of hands and doesn't have his values, then his implied odds are pretty good for any hand if he hits - he knows with a big hand you will reraise and see it the whole way. if that's his plan, then raising pre-flop to take contrrol isn't bad either, though it cuts down his implied odds. think of it this way - he's a massive dog pre-flop, probably 8-1 or worse. but once his hand hit, he must have made 8 times (or close to) his preflop bets. even if a bit les than that, it gives him an unshakeable "maniac" image, which he may be able to turn to his advantage.

that said, implied odds aren't up to much at limit. either he is a very very good player or a total moron. there's a fine line. certainly i wouldn't play that way or recommend it.