Struggling college student needs motivation

[Moyer]

I'm having troubles choosing a career path and I've had big problems with motivation recently in college. Even to the point that I may quit. Classes are not tough for me, but I'm still doing horrible. I just don't have any ambition to be there.

On the other hand, I love poker. I sit down and start playing at 8 o'clock, the next thing I know, it's 5am. Too bad I don't have the skills to play professionally yet or that's what I would do(or atleast try). I also have no problems reading poker book after book, studying them more than I've studied any one text book in my life.

I guess I'm just looking for advice. Maybe there's a profession related to poker that would be of interest to a poker player? Should I take a semester off and try to study and play poker as much as possible? Or maybe I should do this while being a part time student, only taking a couple classes a week? I'd really like to take a semester off, but I don't know how I'd get by with it. Can't really tell the parents I'm quitting school to be a pro gambler or anything. I'd need a job, a steady source of income, while having plenty of time to study poker.

All advice is appreciated.

[LetsRock]

Assuming you're of typical college age (20ish?), welcomr to life after high school. It's not at all unusual to to become aware that you're not really interested in persuing something that seemed very important to you a few years ago.

I went through the same thing my first college go around. I was doing OK grade-wise, but had just lost interest in persuing my chosen line of work. I kind of figured out that the real reason I was in college was because I was "supposed to" - not because I really wanted to be there. I decided to go out and live life for a while, because college would always be there.

While I really wish that I would have maintained interest in finishing college the first time (I did return to college some 20 years later), I have no regrets that I decided to "work" my way through life for a while. Sure, I have occasional "wish I knew then what I know now" moments, but I imagine everyone has those thoughts regardless of what road was used to get to "now". You can make pretty decent money without a degree if you're a hard worker. IMO, there's just no point attending college if you don't want to be there.

Take a semester off and see where it takes you. If you find that you really did want to finish, it's not that hard to get back into it. You'll very likely end up on a very twisty life-road that takes you through a lot of ups and downs but it's this kind of experience that most people need to actually figure out what they really want out of life. This may be obvious, but this suggestion is coupled with the concept that you'll be supporting yourself, not sponging off your parents or anyone else.

I'm not going to tell you to become a pro poker player. If that's what you want to do, that's your business. From what I've heard, it's a very tough life (even the best players in the world go through stretches of bad luck) that few can actually handle.

Unless you are in a specific "once in a lifetime" opportunity that you can't quit and come back to (like a scholarship or the like), I would advise taking a break and chase life around for a while. Let poker be a hobby for a while - maybe you CAN make enough to supplement an income, or even BE your income. I don't think I'd start-off with poker being my chosen profession.

[mosch]

Don't mess up college.

My longer, more thorough explanation of how it's possible to be successful without it has been deleted and replaced with this message: Don't mess up college.

[Moyer]

LetsRock,
Yes, I'm exactly 20. No career has really seemed important to me ever. Like you, I just thought that's what I was "supposed" to do. That's just what everyone seems to beat into you in high school.

I know the life of a pro poker player is not as dazzling as it may seem on the WPT. It was just a thought.

[ QUOTE ]
You'll very likely end up on a very twisty life-road that takes you through a lot of ups and downs but it's this kind of experience that most people need to actually figure out what they really want out of life. This may be obvious, but this suggestion is coupled with the concept that you'll be supporting yourself, not sponging off your parents or anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the hard part. Is working nights at a factory 40hrs a week gonna help me figure out what I want in life? Cause that's probably what I'll have to do in order not to sponge off of my parents.


Mosch,
I realize that staying in school is probably the best thing for me in the long run. I've told myself that several times. So have my parents, my brother, and my friends. But it never seems to work. Don't ask me why. I wish I knew.

[Al Schoonmaker]

Countless young (and not so young) people share your confusion and doubts. Some of them never outgrow them, but most slowly learn what they want to do with their lives. It is not a bad idea to take a year or more off from college, but I most emphatically recommend that you do NOT try to make a living as a poker pro.
Living in Las Vegas has let me see how they live, and hardly any of them have any money. Every month or more frequently we hear of a former great, even a winner of the World's Championship, who is busted and struggling to pay off his debts. If the greats can't make a living, what chance do you have?
Use that time off to explore the world and yourself. Travel; try different kinds of jobs; read books you wouldn't read; socialize with people you would not normally meet.
At your age your top priority should be finding out who you are and where you fit in the world.
Regards,
Al

[Zeno]

Taking a year or so off from college is not a bad idea really, IF it does not hamper you in getting back in. In my opinion, some people should take time off between high school and college to knock about some. Then they usually take college and the opportunities that it offers far more seriously and have a better idea about a 'life path’. If time off between high school and college isn’t done, then a small hiatus or a longer period away from academic life can be beneficial. All this may depend on the individual of course.

The reality of Pro poker is far from the allure portrayed by some. Discuss any future decisions you make with trusted friends and your family before making a change.

-Zeno

[LetsRock]

[ QUOTE ]
This is the hard part. Is working nights at a factory 40hrs a week gonna help me figure out what I want in life? Cause that's probably what I'll have to do in order not to sponge off of my parents.


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe. When you're unisnpired by any "known" professions, you never know what is going to peak your interest and give you ideas on what to pursue. Maybe, while working in that factory you'll come up with some incredible idea that will revolutionize factory work forever and you can become a millionaire overnight! Maybe, you'll really grow to hate it and wish you had finished your degree, or you'll discover another passion that going back to school and changing your focus would enable.

I went into the dead-end world of food/bar service when I decided to end my schooling. I thought that I'd be very good at restaurant management (and I was!) but eventually dicovered that I'd likely never get into any serious money on that track. After that I wandered through several "transitional" jobs (sign painter, truck driver, gardener) before I stumbled into construction work (electrician) which I did (quite well) for 11 years. Then I got seriously enough injured that I was off work for over a year. While I was home collecting worker's comp, I stumbled into web-site design, which led me back to school to become more hireable, got my degree and am now employed in the IT world. I never, in a million years, would have seen myself doing this for work. When I was in school the first time, "pong" was the big computer game and the concept of PCs and the info age were still a ways away, so I'm not surprised that I couldn't have thought of it.

The point of my little bio, is that sometimes, you just gotta get out and live life to discover what is important to you. Some people are lucky and can map their life out at the age of 13. Others never have a plan, but they get stuck into a situation where they feel they have no choice but to put in their 9 to 5 until they retire. (Having a family early is likely a sure way to get stuck in a bad job forever). Still others have no plan, but they go in search of it and keep their options open for the next available oportunity.

Welcome to life dude!

[HDPM]

I would strongly caution you about quitting college. I had similar thoughts. I think a lot of people do. But if you find it easy, I'd try to get the degree. Once you do that, you can take some time and do some other stuff. Say you're "taking some time before grad school" whatever. But you don't know what you want right now. No problem. A lot of people have that going on. And it will continue throughout life if you are intelligent. But having options is nice. A degree gives you more options. Maybe in 3 years you wnat to try a certain job or career that requires it.

Now, maybe if you are going to do terrible in school it makes sense to stop rather than get horrible grades. But it doesn't sound like you will have a problem doing OK.

So, I say attend to your schooling and get a degree. Then attend to your education by exploring what you might like and think about taking jobs for what you can learn. Then play some poker to stay sane.

GL.

[turnipmonster]

hi moyer,
I quit college when I was 19 because I got a job touring in a rock band (I'm a musician). Everyone told me it was a bad idea, but I knew what I was doing, and I ended up touring the country for a year, having some of the best experiences I could have had at that age, and then going back to school afterwards to finish my degree (in computer science).

So if you know what you are doing, take some time off and support yourself however you want to. paint houses, wait tables, deliver pizzas, do whatever. there are about a million ways for you to pay your rent. play poker for fun, study, if you have a real roll then take a shot at playing.

--turnipmonster

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
Too bad I don't have the skills to play professionally yet...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Hoss, I DO. I've dabbled in playing pro from time to time, and currently play pro online. I have read ALL the books about ten times each, or more. I have been writing on this forum for seven years straight. I have good personal coaches (tho I usually fail to listen to them at critical moments, lol). So I can tell you one thing about being a pro...

It SUCKS. It's MUCH harder than you think. I am making it as a pro party because I prop at certain sites online. I also spend a LOT of time at the tables, event tho I basically HATE playing online. soon I will be moving to vegas, and getting A JOB as a stagehand, work which I actually enjoy. Then I can play poker for FUN again. I will always play poker part time, the part time pro setup has worked very well for me. But the pro thing, while paying the bills, still SUCKS.

al

[onegymrat]

Hi Moyer,

You seem to speak with an impression that you are very, very lost. Do you still live at home? Do you pay for your own education? Do you have to pay rent? Have you ever had a job? You can guess that my advice is not to play more poker, but focus on what's important for your life. Believe it or not, poker will always be there. Opportunities for bettering your life when you are young, will not.

I feel your problem lies in the lack of direction in your life and has nothing to do with poker. You say that you want a steady income, so it can still give you time to study poker. What makes you think that you will be able to hold a steady job when you can't make it through courses that you say are easy?

Like Dr. Al stated, playing for a living is tougher than you think. That's like saying that you were in a lead in your high school play, and that should lead you to superstardom on the big screen. It's ludicrous.

Have you tried talking to your parents about your schooling? Perhaps you can try a different major. Maybe you can talk to a career counselor at your college. There are many ways that you can seek advice. I just don't feel poker has anything to do with it. It seems like it's an excuse to drop out of school because you are lazy and want to play more cards, since you don't have any expenses.

Poker is a game of skill, which is kept score with money. It is not a career move for 99.99% of the population. It is merely a hobby. Get some help.

[Robk]

I'm not going to stand by while people badmouth my profession in CAPITAL LETTERS.

[ QUOTE ]
It SUCKS.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it doesn't.

[ QUOTE ]
It's MUCH harder than you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it isn't.

[ QUOTE ]
I am making it as a pro party because I prop at certain sites online.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't prop anywhere.

[ QUOTE ]
I also spend a LOT of time at the tables

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't.

[ QUOTE ]
event tho I basically HATE playing online.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't say that I mind.

[ QUOTE ]
Then I can play poker for FUN again. I will always play poker part time, the part time pro setup has worked very well for me. But the pro thing, while paying the bills, still SUCKS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this. It's the same game whether you're a pro or amateur. Why is it more fun one way or the other? Actually I can't find one reason in your post not to play poker for a living, it's just a long whine about how you personally don't enjoy it. I do enjoy it, and can't imagine doing anything else right now. I work when I want. I work where I want. I work as little as I want. I make plenty of money. How much I make is determined by how well I perform. What more do you want? And please don't say health insurance and good credit.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Gee Rob I didn't realize my opinion was WRONG and yours is PURE FACT.

When you MUST win to pay the bills, playing cards can be very stressful, taking much of the joy out of it. When you play part time for money and enjoyment, the game is simply more enjoyable. Seeing the same damn screens all day long isn't nearly as enjoyable as visiting different cardrooms and having an actual socially gratifying game of cards, rather than the usual silent and solitary online grind. Having played live for years before my temporary online stint, my (wrong of course) opinion is that ONLINE POKER SUCKS. It's impersonal as all hell. The fish are protected big time in ways they aren't when playing live. Much of the information available to you that you can get by playing live disappears, and so does some of your edge, for me this is particularly so in limit hold'em, which I DESPISE online, but enjoy live. And for someone who admits they don't have the skills, playing for a living, live or online, would be SUICIDAL.

It has nothing to do with insurance either.

Of course the original poster should see that you A) hardly have to play at all to make a great living, and B) should take it up right away on your advice, because obviously it's easy as pie to be a pro poker player, the money just rolls in regularly in huge quantities with little effort, like rob says.

I am not badmouthing poker, if I didn't love it I wouldn't play it, nor would have have spent so much time over the last seven years posting on this forum. But if I can convince someone to NOT make a mistake by turning pro when they are obviously not ready to do so, I certainly will, even if people like you are somehow offended by my telling it like it is.

al

[Robk]

[ QUOTE ]

Gee Rob I didn't realize my opinion was WRONG and yours is PURE FACT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Relax I'm just joking around with you a little bit.

[ QUOTE ]
When you MUST win to pay the bills, playing cards can be very stressful, taking much of the joy out of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I just don't see it that way. My earn is my earn and that's the end of it. I never feel like "Oh man if these aces don't hold up I wont be able to make rent." My expenses are low, I generally make enough to cover them in the first few days of the month. I have a more than adequate bankroll. So where's the stress?

[ QUOTE ]
Seeing the same damn screens all day long isn't nearly as enjoyable as visiting different cardrooms and having an actual socially gratifying game of cards, rather than the usual silent and solitary online grind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker can be boring and unsatisfying, I'm the first to admit. But I feel it's much better than having (most) jobs for the reasons I said. I'm sure there are some people who love their careers, and maybe I will too someday. I don't find playing live "socially gratifying", but maybe I just play with the wrong people.

[ QUOTE ]
my (wrong of course) opinion is that ONLINE POKER SUCKS. It's impersonal as all hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel like you're missing my point. I like online poker because I make more than I could playing live, with a smaller bankroll. There's no denying it's impersonal, but I don't play because I enjoy the camaraderie.

[ QUOTE ]
Much of the information available to you that you can get by playing live disappears, and so does some of your edge, for me this is particularly so in limit hold'em

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no question that your edge goes down, but what about hands per hour? And I don't really think that extra information is that important to limit hold'em, but that's certainly debatable.

[ QUOTE ]
And for someone who admits they don't have the skills, playing for a living, live or online, would be SUICIDAL.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you can work to get those skills, and IMO it's worth working very hard to get them.

[ QUOTE ]
Of course the original poster should see that you A) hardly have to play at all to make a great living, and B) should take it up right away on your advice, because obviously it's easy as pie to be a pro poker player, the money just rolls in regularly in huge quantities with little effort, like rob says.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did I say it took little effort? It took months of hard work for me to get to the level I'm at now. I'm just trying to show the other side of things, as your post makes professional poker sound like a nightmare. I don't think it's debatable that for a very good poker player, playing online provides a healthy income for relatively little stress.

[ QUOTE ]
But if I can convince someone to NOT make a mistake by turning pro when they are obviously not ready to do so, I certainly will, even if people like you are somehow offended by my telling it like it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never told this guy or anyone else what they should do for a living, and he said himself he's not going to play for a living, so I don't know what you're trying to save him from. Who exactly are "people like me"? I'm certainly not offended by your opinion, I just disagree.

[VinnyTheFish]

EASY!

Become a teacher! No sweat! I teach. I have ever vacation in the book. I am heading home at 2:10 everyday! Great benefits. When I retire 20 years from now I will be quite happy!

Summers off! I have a family beach house 15 miles south of Atlantic City. I work at a golf course; therefore I play free golf at our 5 courses. Our Pro calls course in South Jersey and hooks me up down south.

Did I say summers off!!!! You getting the point?

[HDPM]

Yep, knew I blew it and shoulda been a teacher.

Hey, if I think about going back to school for a teacher's certificate can you get us on at Pine Valley? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Cyndie]

You got it in spades diamonds hearts and clubs! If there is any chance that you could enjoy teaching...it is a wonderful career that pays enough to get by for a nine or ten month job...the education courses are not tough and you will get the "respect" of a profession that doesn't interfere with your passion.

I know, I retired from teaching to play poker when I was making more from poker than teaching. I also had my children in high school and college and had saved enough to be able to get by with a small win each month...like a grand. That wasn't with scrimping...then I just needed not to lose! Then I could retire knowing that I could get a job if i needed to. Las Vegas is really short on teachers.

The other thing...I know Al's personality. He is right for himself. He really misses people to talk to...I love talking and playing online. Choose for your self...there are other ways to make a living than propping. Referrals and affiliates and websites can be a lot of fun...writing can be worthwhile. Shucks, there will be lots of interest in poker lessons and you don't have to be a world class player to be a world class teacher!

You do need a college degree, and I know the stuff they think is important ISN'T, but it is a license to make a decent living these days. If you can get through without going terribly far into debt...that is wonderful!

Poker can be a better paying part time job than most also!

[Sooga]

Haha, nice to meet a fellow teacher on here... I gotta admit, while the yearly salary isn't great, working 8-3.15 (with a lunch hour and a free period) for half the year (literally) is a pretty good gig. I can play poker when I want, not play when I don't want, and I make some good money on the side doing so. My engineer friends who work 50 hours/week obviously make a lot more than I do, but they're usually zombies by the time they get home, or on the weekend. Teaching can be a pain when you have an annoying student, but I've had so many rewarding experiences in just my 1.5 years doing it that it more than makes up for it. I spoke to other teachers before I took my job who said that teaching is so stressful and yada yada yada, but man, I don't do much! /images/graemlins/wink.gif