What happens if I don't tip?

Can poker pros, semi-pros, serious amateurs describe what the _financial_ disadvantages of not tipping are?


For low limit players, tipping seems to be an EV killer and I'm hoping to avoid it. /images/wink.gif

" ... describe what the _financial_ disadvantages of not tipping are?"


It's worse that leprosy, (or is that Leporesy?). Non-tippers suffer the tortures of the poker damned. When they bust out, they won't even be able to get a date with those easily stiffed lowlife dealers, or worse, get a job as one.


Tommy

. . .or is that. . .

so anyway i even just tell the dealers that im not going to tip in the low limit games because of the 5$ per hand rake.


nevertheless, i still tip when i scoop or even get half a monster pot. i guess i just cant help it.


but anyway, theres a new guy whos been playing that the dealers kind of hate (he kind of came in with a super tough guy attitude; hes kind of mellowing a bit now) and also he doesnt tip. (well, he told one dealer, heres a tip - get a job as a nurse) well, anyway, once he tossed his kill hand into the muck when he thought there was a raise (had to post a kill since he scooped a big pot) (really just the middle of the table, his 3 cards were just right there, not mixed at all), but the dealer called the floor and his hand was dead. i guarantee i would have gotten my cards back.


brad

One thing for sure, regular players who start games and keep games going, but who tip very little do benefit dealers by creating games in which other players, mostly those who only play occasionally, do tip.


I believe that dealers perform a service. If they do their job well they should earn a tip. I also believe that those dealers who perform poorly, and this usually means to much extraneous talking in the box, should understand that they just won't collect as much from their customers.

Dealers earn a substantial portion of their income from tips. If they go to a table and do not receive any, the level of service will decrease meaning fewer hands per hour. I will leave it up to David or Mason to discuss the ramifications of 5 less hands per hour as it pertains to EV.


In a perfect world the dealer would be professional and deal to the best of their ability no matter what.....yadda, yadda, yadda. We don't live in a perfect world. Dealers work harder when they feel appreciated. Just like the rest of the world /images/smile.gif.


Larry

While I agree, those dealers who do a poor job should not be rewarded.


I have been a critic of dealer quality nationwide for a long time. Now this doesn't mean that most dealers are bad, just the opposite is true. But it does mean that there are plenty of cardrooms where cardroom management needs to do more so that virtually all dealers will be good, not just the majority. The good news is that more cardrooms seem to be addressing the problem and I believe that dealer quality is improving with time. That's certainly true in the major rooms here in Las Vegas.


MM

The financial disadvantages of non-tipping? Hmmm. Did you factor in the sudden increase in your medical expenses?

So why not make it in Edmonton so that poker dealers are fairly rewarded for competence rather than pooling and spiltting tips....?? I might enjoy tipping Denny a fair chunk since he's fast and excellent but maybe I don't care so much for tip money going to ... well, let's leave some names out of it! If you pool, you don't leave the customers any room to reward good service.

It is the house responsibility to provide the best dealers possible and to provide them the proper training. However, assuming that has been done, motivation is still a factor. It is human nature.


It is easy to ask the house for higher compensation for dealers but in all honesty, that will only create higher priced lack of motivation. Tips are a financial reward for service but are also and acknowledgement for such service. If you have a dealer who is capable of 40 hands per hour, a kind word and a nice tip will ensure that you get 40 hands per hour.

Not tipping might ensure 30. Once again, I'll leave the EV equation for 10 less hands per hour up to smarter people.


Larry

Catch 22. Tips are currently pooled to avoid the inequity of competent dealers being unable to deal certain games simply due to over supply. There can be a number of competent dealers but only so many games to go around. I am sure how you can see this issue becoming very convoluted.


Larry

Came across a newer dealer who said she had purchased Mason's book on dealing. First newer dealer who has said this. (Could be others who didn't say.) She was trying hard and was willing to learn. This guarantees good tips from me, even if she's not good yet. I almost wanted to take up a collection at the table to reimburse her for the book. $3 each would have about done it. I was ver happy she went the extra little bit to learn her craft right.

Don't agree. My experience is that tipping is the same from 3-6 up to 15-30 so I don't see the basis for your comment. If you are talking about pooling tips with the floor dealers, that is not an argument to me to tip higher. I started learning blackjack and I rather enjoy no social obligation to tip after every single won hand.

Sorry if I made that sound like my opinion. I don't necessarity endorse it but I am not speaking against it either. It is the reasoning behind the policy as established by the gaming commission.


L.

All great poker players.....have good intuition...at least I hope they do.....anyway, I have it too.....and this is what I can't stand...


Let's say you are in late position and raise.....with no callers...both of the blinds fold to you.....the dealer gives this look towards you....like as if...he's expecting a tip...

I HATE THAT!!!!


Another one is if the pot is small......and you bet out on the flop and win the pot uncontested....and there is virtually nothing in the pot.....and the dealer again gives this look....as if...he's saying "please tip me"


I HATE THAT!!!

It does make me feel very uncomfortable......and it annoys me......and I will not Tip when the pot is kept small......if I do infact win a pot.....I'll tip, usually $1 per pot....depending on the size of the pot...


Plus.....there are times... at the Trop.....when the pots aren't big.......but a few exceptionally well dealers there keep the game moving very fast......always on top of things....very quick and make no mistakes....(very very very little mistakes) THEY ARE THE ONES who I will tip over $1....because they are fast and good... I'll even tip them if I didn't win a pot...because their service is excellent....especially when their shift is over.

If you are playing exclusively low-limit, and if the rake is fairly high as it is in most places today, and if you tip $1 after virtually every pot won, you are going to have a hard time making much long-term progress unless the game is quite juicy. I'm not suggesting not tipping at all, but rather weighing all factors. This is also a very good reason to frequently play games such as $6-$12 rather than $3-$6. Also, and this is a purely personal perspective, in those few casinos where the poker tips are pooled with the tips from the pits of the entire casino, I feel far less pressure to tip. Of course the average quality of service is generaly lower in pooled tip situations also.

regular players will tip more, because, well they play regularly! In the course of a game, however, they will tip less because they will enter less pots, and therfore, get to the showdown less.

BTW, I tip every hand, I tip before I leave, I tip if I play in a tourny and get busted out before I get in the money, I tip extra for great service. It's just something I believe in.

Bad dealers are the fault of bad management. I've been a regional manager for 20 years, and have moved around the country quite a bit. The bottom line is that good managers find a way to motivate their employees. One way or the other. Be a motivater, a teacher, and a mentor. If your people still can't do the job, get ones that can.

The rest will start to fall in line. And they will appreciate you later.

YOU not tipping should have a negligible effect on EV except insofar as it causes others not to tip who would have otherwise. The argument that YOU should tip because if everyone didn't tip bad things would happen is poor poker logic. If I did what everyone did I would be a losing player, and if everyone did what I did I would also be a losing player as would everyone else /images/smile.gif

>>In a perfect world the dealer would be professional and deal to the best of their ability no matter what.....yadda, yadda, yadda. We don't live in a perfect world.