Two AQ hands, and a question

[Griffin]

Any advice on these hands is appreciated, as are your thoughts on my related question (in italics in the last paragraph).

Table is Pacific 2/4. Unlike most Pacific tables, this one is aggressive, and has more good players than bad. The flop and/or turn are raised almost every hand. I thought about leaving, but decided I needed the practice at a tougher table. Because of the table texture, I played tighter than usual, and my raises were getting respect. The last time I raised, everyone but the button folded.

Hand 1:
Opponents in this hand are EP1, a decent player, and Button, a very good player.

I'm UTG and have A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif

I raise, EP1 cold-calls, folded to Button who 3-bets (I am certain he would only 3-bet me with AA or KK), folded to me, I call, EP1 calls. Three to the flop.

Flop (10sb): 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I thought about betting, hoping Button would have AA and put me on KK, but I know he would raise; I prefered to chase my 4 outs cheaply.

I check, EP1 checks, button bets, we both call.

Turn(6.5bb): 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Check, check, bet, I fold.


Hand 2:
Same table, several hands later. I'm not getting much action when I raise, so I chose not to raise pf.

I'm CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

MP limps, LP1 limps, LP2 limps, I limp, button limps, SB completes, BB checks. Seven to the flop.

Flop(7sb): J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, BB checks, MP bets, LP1 calls, LP2 folds, I raise, Button folds, sb folds, bb folds, MP and LP call.

Turn(6.25bb): K/images/graemlins/club.gif

MP bets, LP calls, I raise, MP calls, LP 3-bets, I call, MP calls.

River(14.75bb): 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif

MP checks, LP bets, I call, MP folds.

Was the turn raise OK? I was sure I was beat after the 3-bet, but decided to call it down anyway.

I enjoyed playing against some tougher opponents than I usually have, but I think I was very readable. As a result, there were a couple of other premium hands I did not raise pf. When you think your raises are getting too much respect and making you too readable, AND you're not getting moderate cards in the right position to raise, is it OK to NOT raise some premium hands? I wanted to try raising something like 78s in LP, but never got the right cards in the right position. Yet the times I didn't raise AQ preflop, I felt it was a mistake.

[chesspain]

Hand 1: You played this fine. If you "knew" that the button likely had AA or KK, then you had the odds to try to spike your str8 on the turn, but you were also wise to checkfold after that brick hit you on the turn, since you basically have crap at that point.

Hand 2: I don't like the PF limp. You already have three limpers ahead of you--why let anyone else, especially someone with Kx, get in for cheap. You said that you were not getting action on your raises. Consequently, I would have loved the opportunity to buy the button, knock out the blinds, and set myself up to possibly buy the pot if the flop is raggedy and it gets checked to me.

When you have a "marginally great" hand like AQo, don't be so cavalier that you turn your nose up at the possibility of bullying your way into winning a pot which will contain approx. 7 SBs of others' money.

[bernie]

when my raises are getting too much respect, i lower my raising standards and add some more hands to raise with. i dont beg off from the premiums.

start stealing

b

btw...

2nd hand, given the fact that you get too much respect on your bets and you just raised the flop and turn, you can probably fold to a 3 bet. you're beat. but, if unsure, call.

[Griffin]

[ QUOTE ]
you can probably fold to a 3 bet. you're beat. but, if unsure, call.

[/ QUOTE ]
At the point of the 3-bet, I was getting odds to chase a ten. I called the river because the pot was too large to fold for a single bet (Majorkong's post was in my head). I agree that I was most likely beat, but I felt calling down was in order.

As for not raising premium hands, I agree that I'm losing too much by not raising them, even if it means winning a much smaller pot. Like you suggest, I'll try a bluff or two which will either get me some pots or change my image if I'm called down with them. Thanks guys.

[me454555]

hand1: I like the flop call, but you can fold on the turn b/c you don't have odds to draw to your strait.

Hand 2: Everyone else already covered it. Raise p/f. Flop play is fine. If MP is a solid player I'd consider just calling the turn instead of raising it.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
At the point of the 3-bet, I was getting odds to chase a ten.

[/ QUOTE ]

understand, you have 3 outs, at best. the LP also just 'woke up' and 3 bet the turn. this is against a 'respected turn raise'. he may have just got the str8. meaning you may be drawing to 2 or 3 outs to a split pot.

what hand are you putting LP on? given the lack of a preflop raise, he wont put you on a high set, so he could be testing a smaller set a little here. (but thatd just be 5s, or maybe Js)

a 3 bet turn against a respected turn raise is a very strong bet. he's not figuring you will fold given your action. what hand will he do this with?

b

[harboral]

I read only your post, no responses, HOWEVER - If you know this Strong Player would only 3 bet with AA, KK - what the hell are you calling with AQ for???????????? 2nd hand, if you KNOW the 3-bet means you are beat, what are you calling for???????????????????? AQ is a huge trap hand for many players - I won't call a raise preflop from even a decent player with it unless I am on the button. In NL, I won't call a raise with it at all.

[Homer]

Hand 1 - Well played.

Hand 2 - Preflop, raise with AQo after three limpers. If your raises are getting too much respect, don't raise less with premium hands to get action, but rather continue to raise with these hands and add some weaker hands. On the turn, I think you should just call. You are most likely behind two-pair or a set of 5's, but you have odds to see the river getting 8:1, as an A, Q or T might all be good. I'd like raising if you could safely lay down to a three-bet, but at that point you're getting 12:1, and should probably call one more bet hoping for a T, unless you can be 100% sure that a three-bet means your opponent has broadway. On the river, it can be tough to force yourself to fold when you're getting 16:1, but I think you have a fairly easy fold here unless your opponent has maniacal tendencies.

-- Homer

[Homer]

HOWEVER - If you know this Strong Player would only 3 bet with AA, KK - what the hell are you calling with AQ for????????????

He's getting 9:1, and given the fact that he has an Ace his opponent will have AA only 1/3 of the time.

2nd hand, if you KNOW the 3-bet means you are beat, what are you calling for????????????????????

He's calling because he's getting 12:1, and might have 4 T outs (10.5:1). However, some of the time he'll be drawing to a chop, and some of the time he'll have only 3 clean outs, so he should probably fold immediately to the three-bet (I think I just contradicted my other post).

-- Homer

[Griffin]

[ QUOTE ]
If you know this Strong Player would only 3 bet with AA, KK - what the hell are you calling with AQ for????????????

[/ QUOTE ]
I called because my opponent will have KK some of the time.

[ QUOTE ]
2nd hand, if you KNOW the 3-bet means you are beat, what are you calling for????????????????????

[/ QUOTE ]
At the time, I calculated that I had the odds to chase the 4 tens (I didn't fear a flush in this hand, but maybe I should have). I realize that the 3-bet possibly meant a straight, but I want to put my opponents on a range of hands, not just the nuts, so I did consider JJ, and 55, as well as QT.

However, looking back at it, and considering everyone's posts, I probably should have given myself credit for 3 outs or less to a potentially split pot, and folded to the 3-bet.

[Griffin]

[ QUOTE ]
On the river, it can be tough to force yourself to fold when you're getting 16:1, but I think you have a fairly easy fold here unless your opponent has maniacal tendencies.

[/ QUOTE ]
If I hadn't have read Majorkong's post about not folding big pots for one small bet, I would have folded. I guess I should have seen this as an exception to the rule!