changing a rut

play low limits 2/5 hold em (this is colorado so the game's weirdk, 1 $2 blind and $5 max all betting rounds) tables are usually really tight, a lot of people will limp in, but a big bet will usually scare most people off. rarely ever seen anyone 3 bet anything.


anyways, i play really tight, but aggressive when i have the cards. barely had any cards to play lately. i'll sit and wait and wait and wait (trying the discipline after someone had a post about patience in the game of hold em) until i get strong cards to play. even doing this i've had 3 losing sessions.


i know i have to roll with the swings, but my question is what do you people do when you're on a losing streak and catching cold cards? you guys take a break for a couple weeks? play just as you normally do? tighten up even more? play wilder to see if you can make anything happen? drink less, drink more?


i want to play this weekend, but my confidence is a bit down because of this last losing streak. i feel i'm playing smart, just had some bad luck.


suggestions or comments?

take a break. even if just a day or so. *if you play that often. otherwise miss a session or 2*

take your mind off of it. thats if you know your game is good. when i hit these streaks, the FIRST thing i do is analyze my game, street by street. with practice, that process doesnt take too long. then, once i confirm its a bad run, take a break OR try another cardroom. psychologically it can help.


b

I play in those games, usually at the Hyatt in Blackhawk, and can sympathize. Lots of variance, as any two cards often win. Where do you play, in Cripple Creek or up in Blackhawk/Central City?


I started playing 5-5 because the games are better (more money in pre-flop in comparison to the flop bets, so you can draw and use your ability to calculate odds to your advantage, and because the players are a little better, it can be easier to put them on hands- and they never forget to bet or bluff, so you can drag some healthy pots).


Remember you have huge implied odds pre-flop in an unraised 2-5 pot, so many of your trash playing opponents are correct when they limp with any two suited cards. And people will call when you have a hand, I know it is not fun when your two pair gets sucked out by the turn and river, but your hands WILL hold up and they will pay you off in the long run, its just hard to remember that the long run is actually long, and more than just a few hours on the weekend.


I think that in that game, you don't want to play too tightly. Suited Ax, Kx and even Qx, as well as suited connectors, one and two gaps play well given the odds and number of callers. Too tight doesn't play so well because hands like AKo doesn't hold up well with many callers unpaired. I have seen a guy drop four racks after announcing to those seated around him that he would call the whole way with any pair- and he did! Play some hands, see what happens, and discount the value of big offsuited cards (but not if the game is uncharacteristically tight, because the raise to 2.5 times the blind makes calling tough).


Good luck and a strong stomach.

poker books are U currently studying??

If U play only week-ends,I see no reason to take a break--since U do not play at least 4 days in between.

If U are reasonably sure U play well pre-flop,then be sure that U also play well post-flop.

In other words,don't string along post-flop with only a small piece of the cheese.

Make sure U have a solid flop or a solid draw.

Are U selectively aggressive enough in this tight game??

For example,if U have 2nd or 3rd pair with top over-card,do U check-raise the flop to obtain a "free card" on the turn if U do not improve??

U can't play with "scare money" in this game.

Make sure that U come to the table with a bunch of chips(intimidation factor) and be prepared to make some occasional unusual random moves.

Happy pokering,

Sitting Bull

i usually play at the lodge. more tables, less wait, plus it's a smoking room. i haven't played any 5/5 games yet, but i'm thinking i might give it a chance.


i've played at the hyatt once, and might give that room another try, just for a change.


thanks for the encouraging words.

One thing that I have found helpful when I'm running bad is to try to be aware of the bets I'm saving myself by playing well. Even if I have a losing session, I try to congratulate myself on only dropping one rack instead of one and a half because i didn't get desperate and start chasing. I try to do the same thing when winning, by the way - keep my head on straight by keeping track of the bets I cost myself - extra money that should be in my pocket but isn't.


Yes, you have to track your wins and losses and it is important. But it is just as important (and in my opinion, more helpful) to track your good and bad play as an indicator of success.

i've been reading Winning Low-Limit Hold'em (2nd Edition) by lee jones. the other books seem like they're for bigger limits. do you have any other recommendations?


i usually play on the weekends and sometimes come up on the weekday.


pre-flop i'll raise premium hands, but sometimes i'll limp with middle pairs to mix it up.


post-flop i'll throw away hands that aren't top pair or don't have the kicker, or draws that don't leave me with plenty of outs.


i'm conscious of how other players bet so i can check-raise for more bets or for free turn or river cards.


i know there's still a lot i need to work on, but i feel like i play allright enough where i shouldn't be losing too much money, and taking money off of players that should be losing money. unfortunately it seems like when these fish sit down at the table, my cards are unplayable.


but who knows, maybe i'm the fish and i just don't realize it.

"I think that in that game, you don't want to play too tightly. Suited Ax, Kx and even Qx, as well as suited connectors, one and two gaps play well given the odds and number of callers. Too tight doesn't play so well because hands like AKo doesn't hold up well with many callers unpaired."


This advice is incorrect. With a cost of only $2 a round, you should be playing extremely tight. If you don't understand this concept reread TOP.


Regards,


Paul Talbot

My reference was to the HPFAP21, to the discussion of spread limit games on page 219, which states that the following is the first unique attribute of a spread limit game:


First, you often can see the flop cheaply, meaning your implied odds are much larger than in a game with a standard structure. Consequently, many (weak) drawing hands that you normally would not play become playable in a spread limit game, even from an early position.


I'll look over the TOP and see what other contrary advice might apply, but I must admit Sklansky's advice seems intuitively correct and my experiences playing in this game have confirmed his basic thesis. Weak drawing hands, such as suited one and two gappers, as well as Kxs and even Qxs, play well if you can limp in. With many limpers to you for only two dollars in a game where the next three rounds of betting are likely to be 5 dollars, the implied odds are high.


The too tight play I was referring to was the lesser value of big, unpaired, offsuit cards. If one could get the pot shorthanded or heads up pre-flop, and then bet representing strength when your cards don't pair knowing that you are likely to win the pot outright or possibly showing down a high card, than the offsuit cards would play better. However, the fish in some of these games can be outrageous, so the value of big offsuit cards goes down when they do not pair on the flop and there are a number of other players. Its tougher to bluff/value bet in that situation, as someone likely got a piece of the flop.


In reference to big, unpaired offsuit cards, while how to play them multiway is debatable, as discussed here

http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&selm=an_519934414 and

http://izmet.desetka.si/aq.html,

it is important to point out how their value goes down multiway. Even though the pots that they may win will be larger, due to the number of callers they do have to be played differently.

does it take U to arrive at your casino destination?

When U finally arrive,about how long do U play?

Do U have a stop-loss limit money management plan? Or do U play until your well runs dry?

***********************************

U might want to purchase a video tape on basic strtegy in addition to reading and studying Lee Jones.

If several players are staying in with U with random hands and U are playing mostly by the "book",U will lose more hands than U will win,but the pots that U do win will more than compensate for your losses.

Keep following Jones' recommendation and sooner or later the money will come your way.

Even if U play reasonably well without playing too tight,U still will be an overall winner in the long run. When we lose 2 or 3 consecutive sessions,our confidence begins to erode.

One way to try to regain our confidence is by going home after booking a small win. When we book 3 or 4 small wins,then we are on our way to "full recovery".

Easier said than done. The problem with this idea is that U may have traveled 2 or 3 hours or more to arrive at your casino. Hence,U don't want to leave after playing only 1 hr or 30 min. and then leave with a small win.

In my case,I have no problem because I'm just 15 mins away from two of my casinos.

So leaving after a small win is no problem for me.

Players who travel several hours to a casino has a sickness like a "cold". I call this "disease' the "vacation mentality".

They tend to play long hours;don't worry about how tough the competition is because they are at the casino to play--not to evaluate table conditions. After all,they might play only once or twice a week.

In my case,I don't have this "disease' because I play at least 5 days per week--every week. Hence,since it takes me no more than 15 min. to arrive at my casino,I might leave after playing for only 30Min.(That's correct.1/2 Hr.)

Tonight I played 30 Min. because I was a little tired and I wanted to go keep my friend company.

I booked a win of 8BB's.

Someone was surprised to see me leave this soon.

I told him to "get a life". LOL!

However,if I had to travel several hours to play poker,then I,too,would be afflicked by the "vacation mentality"

In summary,oftentimes,one defeats himself at the poker table.


Happy pokering,

Sitting Bull

thanks all for you advice. i decided to get over my losses and went up last night, and played for 3 hours, leaving up 10 BBs. so now i feel better about it.


it only takes me 30-40 minutes to get up to the casinos, so it's not that far. i usually set a money loss limit, or a time limit when i'm up.


although i read lee jones' book, i only use it as a basis. i try to play everything buy the situation and factor in everything.


thanks again for the advice.

Texas Hold'em Poker: Claiming $2-$5


by G. Ed Conly


...is written for the Colorado Spread Limit games. I have gotten it, but have not made it back to CO just yet to try out the ideas.

I believe that the advice he is referring to is that in general, the smaller the ante/blind relative to the average pot size, the tighter you should play. I think this is offset by the high implied odds if you can see the flop for $2. If you start getting a lot of $5 raises pre-flop, you have to play very tight in early position. Unlike in a structured game, it is sometimes correct to fold to a $5 Raise after having called the blind, but you would rather not get into this situation. You also have to play very tight on the flop because the $5 bet reduces your implied odds here, compared to a structured limit game. Also, the free card play is no good--the flop raise is the same as the turn bet, so you might as well just call both bets, assuming, of course, proper pot or implied odds.

I agree about the post flop reduction in implied odds because of the lack of expensive streets later on in the hand. Ditto for the free card flop raise in LP. I also agree about the limping for 2, and meant for that to apply to late position or loose passive tables, since the 5 dollar bet really kills the odds. However, i don't get this:


the smaller the ante/blind relative to the average pot size, the tighter you should play


Doesn't a smaller ante/blind in relation to the average pot size mean that you pay a little up front with the chance to win a big pot later? Isn't that a high implied odds situation, because you stand to win a significant amount later from the larger average pot in relation to the smaller ante/blind you must call to continue with your two hole cards. So if this scenario offers you better implied odds than a structured game, wouldn't you be more likely to take a $2 flop with a wider range of holdings?


Thanks for the clarification.

The concept is often explained this way (I think Sklansky does so in TOP):


1)If there were no antes the correct strategy would be to play only AA (and everyone else would as well so no one would make any money).

2) if a millionaire stopped by your 2-4 game and dropped $100,000 on the table and said "The winner of the hand gets this!" every hand would be playable.


In the $2 single ante game when you raise you are risking $7 to win $2 so you have to win more than 7/9 (78%)of the time to make this a correct bet. You are referring particularly to limping chances. Here of course you can limp with some hands you otherwise would not. Suited connectors and small pairs go up in value. However, some hands drop way down in value. You certainly do not want to play ATo against many plares, even for $2, yet you cannot raise with it because the additional money you have to risk means that you have to win with it more often than a hand like ATo can. As a result it is unplayable.


Fuirthermore, when you limp with speculative hands up front you may often have to fold them when it is raised behind you because now you which cuts down on the number of hands you can play.


The result is a tightness that differs a bit from a typical structured limit game. While you play tighter, you do so with a bit different group of cards than you otherwise would have.


Someone could actually write a nice essay or book chapter about spread-limit pre-flop play that would be useful to many 2-5, 2-6 and 1-4-8-8 (and the very rare 2-10) players out there.


Regards,


Paul Talbot