low limit on party/empire

[noddyholder]

I have only played online poker. How realistic is party/empire pokers low limit games (.50/1 and 1/2) to live poker? It seems like a lot of crazy things happen there. I think I'm a pretty good player, but seem to get beat by people who stay on almost anything. Does anyone recommend other online sites where this might not happen? This is my first post and I hope I didn't break any rules.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
I have only played online poker. How realistic is party/empire pokers low limit games (.50/1 and 1/2) to live poker? It seems like a lot of crazy things happen there. I think I'm a pretty good player, but seem to get beat by people who stay on almost anything. Does anyone recommend other online sites where this might not happen? This is my first post and I hope I didn't break any rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you play low limit in the casinos (at least here in Vegas), you're going to see a lot of the same: people playing 28s, people calling all the way to the river with 33, people making insane bluffs, etc. Certain casinos and certain times of day are worse than others for that sort of thing.

SpaceAce

[Gildersneeze]

It's just something that's gonna happen at low limits/buy-ins.

At my home game, I've done everything I can to get the people around the table to stop playing horrendously bad poker. I'm not the greatest guy to ever play the game; hell, I'm not even anything near a natural, but I try to improve my play every time I sit down, whether we're playing a friendly game for chips, or actually putting cash on the line.

I've tried the following tactics:

1) Reading books and telling them what's in them.
2) Beating them by playing "by the book" poker.
3) Increasing the limits from .20 to $2 spread limit to $.50 to $5.00 spread limit.
4) Beating them at that limit playing "by the book" poker, and then telling them why I played a hand like I did.
5) Increasing the limits from $.50 to $5.00 spread limit to $.20/$.40 Pot Limit with blinds raises for every two players that cash out/go bust and don't re-buy.
6) Beating them by playing a combination of agressive/by the book poker.

This week, I finally said "you know what? F*** it. This game is now No-Limit Hold 'em. You guys want to play like idiots, then I'm going to be able to set you all in instead of slowly bleeding you dry (of course, in much nicer terms)."

Nothing changed except the fact that I could scare a few people off longshot draws here and there when there were big cards on the board with large bets or by calling "all-in." Any hand I wasn't involved in were either "family minus one (me)" pots where people with top-pair, top kicker checked all the way to the river trying to slow play people only to be screwed by some dingus who stayed in with 92o to catch 9-2 on the river, or some guy can't understand why the only other person who listens to me beat him out when Mr. Fish was calling five dollar bets with pocket threes to boards like 9 T K A 2 all the way to the river.

People have asked on this board whether to feel bad about "bringing their 'A' game" to a friendly poker game. I used to. That's why I kept trying to teach the guys how to play well, but they don't listen. So the 'A' game is there, and their money is here.

Just keep practicing the book methods for low limit. Vary your speed, play strong when strong, fold when weak, don't chase longshots, play the good starting hands, get away from them when you feel you're beat, don't cry if you lay down what would have been the best hand.

It sucks s***, but that's the way to beat the low limits (or at least some of the jackasses who play at them).

[bisonbison]

At the one B&M I've been to, 2/4 and 3/6 were virtually indistinguishable from .5/1 online in terms of preflop hand selection and average number of people in a pot. Sometimes there are differences in aggression between live and online, but basically, low limit is low limit, wherever you go.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]

At my home game, I've done everything I can to get the people around the table to stop playing horrendously bad poker.
I've tried the following tactics:


1) Reading books and telling them what's in them.
.
.
.
4) Beating them at that limit playing "by the book" poker, and then telling them why I played a hand like I did.


[/ QUOTE ]


You need to accept that your goals for playing poker may be very different than the goals of the other players. Your goals seem to center mostly on the competitive challenge of the game, as well on trying to master the game. Obviously, winning money is not as important to you as these other goals.

However, you friends may care even less about all of these goals than you. They may be happy enough for the social aspect of the game, as well as for the chance to gamble.

If you want a serious poker challange, then find a tougher game in which to play. With the availability of online play, this will not be difficult. Otherwise, cool it with the table coaching. In fact, I'm surprised that your friends have continued to tolerate your table coaching for this long.

[noddyholder]

I would like to make some money doing this like a lot of you do. It almost sounds like I need to play at the 3/6 tables or higher. I think I'm a tight/agressive player and maybe fewer people stay in for the flop at those tables. What kind of bank roll do you guys reccommend to start with at the higher limit tables? Thanks for replying to my post.

[Rico Suave]

Hey Noddy:

It is my experience that most live 2-4 and 3-6 games are as loose or looser that the 0.50-1 games on party, and are more passive.

--Rico

[Rico Suave]

Hey Noddy:

I used to think the same thing about wanting to move up in limits where people "play better", but that line of thinking is just wrong. Would you rather play opponents who loose passive and generally bad, or opponenents who are tighter, more aggressive, and generally better? Give me the bad players everytime.

--Rico

[kmprsdrm]

What people seem to forget is that everyone plays for their own reasons. Not everyone is out to make the most money possible. Alot play the lowest limits because they want to play, not fold 80% of the time. So play they do /images/graemlins/smile.gif.
Especially at a home game where socializing is the number one goal, poker is just the avenue. Dont berate someone because their goals are different from yours. If they want to give you their money, accept it with a smile and make sure they enjoy themselves so they'll come back. Thats my two cents worth-- hope to see you at the tables.

[colgin]

I agree with your comment about the low limit casino tables being even looser. Like low limit online they are generally passive also. I have found (albeit in my limited casino experience) that you are a little more likely to find one or two really loose aggressive types at the casino than you are at Party $.50/1 or $1/2. I sometimes think these people have wandered over from blackjack or craps and need to juice up the game to make it exciting for them.

[harboral]

You already have some good advise, but I'll add that I have played a lot of 1-3,2-4 and 3-6 in casino games that are similar to Party/Empire 50/$1 - but you are only going to see about 25 hands per hour. Even if you play the $3/6 very well you will make only $10 per hour. Online at the 50/$1 you can easily play 3 games - which should help you play just top quality cards (group 4, maybe group 5 as the worst) and make $10 to $15 per hour. If you want to spice things up, try playing 2 small games and a $2/4 game. (The $1/2 games are tougher than the $2/4) You need 300-500 big bets for a decent bankroll, but if you play 3 games at one time you can reduce that by 25%.

[noddyholder]

good advice harboral

[Roy Munson]

You claim this is your first post yet your profile lists 4 posts?

[noddyholder]

I answered some posts Roy. What is your point?

[CrackerZack]

Not to be harsh, but honestly, if the people at .50/1.00 are playing so bad you can't beat them do you really think you'll do better at higher limits? They are playing so bad, you can't beat them. Does that make any sense?

[noddyholder]

Cracker

Good point. But my qustion was how realistic is party/empire to live games? It seems like a lot of crazy things happen on those sites, including how the flops come and how many times someone who stays with a bad starting 2 cards get something on the river to beat someone who has a better starting hand. My goal is to make a few hundred dollars a month and I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it. I still have a lot of learning to do so that's why I asked the question. Thanks for all the great responses.

[MicroBob]

I would like to make some money doing this like a lot of you do. It almost sounds like I need to play at the 3/6 tables or higher. I think I'm a tight/agressive player and maybe fewer people stay in for the flop at those tables."


to make some money at this i'll set some rules that you may or may not feel free to follow.
you have to be patient, both at the tables and in your desire to move up levels.
you are not allowed to move up until you can prove you can consistently beat the .5/1 game...then prove you can consistently beat the 1/2 game...etc etc.

wanting to move up because the players at .5/1 aren't good enough is erroneous thinking. wishing you could take all of these players' playing styles with you to 3/6 or higher is appropriate thinking.

thinking in terms of 'it seems like' the worst two cards are always winning at my table will not get you very far.
the guys that play the lousy cards are the guys to hang out with and continue to play with.

some of the .5/1 can be a little tricky post-flop even if their pre-flop starting requirements are awful. others will take their 22 to the river when the board is AAAJJ or AKQJT (har har).

if enough players stick arond with terrible holdings then the odds of someone hitting runner-runner for some ridiculous two-pair go up dramatically. this means you'll take your share of bad beats when you have top-pair and thought you were good....it also means you'll win more when the chasers don't hit.
idiot-chasers like these are what you want.

in short (and it's been said before and i'm just saying it again), if you can't beat the .5/1 party games then how should you be able to beat the games at a higher limit??

[noddyholder]

microboy

Thanks for the advice/rules.

[CrackerZack]

people have posted their data from pokertracker before and all hands/flops etc come well within standard deviation. The games are like live very low-limit games, can be very frustrating, and will have tons of suckouts, just like live low limit games. As you move up in levels the games get a bit tighter and a bit more aggressive both live and online. Games tend to be nuttier online though as people don't have to worry about looking someone in the face so they'll try all sorts of crazy bluffs and when they're tilting and raising like crazy, don't have to be embarassed by being visibly disturbed. Its less personable, but from a poker standpoint, they're very similar. Good luck out there.

Zack

[noddyholder]

Zack

Thanks for the reply. And thanks to everyone else that replied. I am not moving anywhere including up until I master .5/1 at party. I am up overall, but not as much as some of you post and I still have a lot to learn. I will continue to read the posts and study anywhere else I can.

[Raiser]

Very good points all around. I can say that I used to feel the same way. I moved all around in limits because too much crazy stuff was happening at the .5/1 Party tables. Sooner or later you will realize that, as Cracker says, if you can't beat these players there is no reason to move up. It might take some time to learn how to play the correct game to beat this limit, but you will learn and it will make you a better player in the long run.

harboral also made a very good point. You are seeing only 25 hands an hour at a B&M. If you play only 1 online table you are probably seeing almost twice that number, so the number of "weird things" that you see will be packed into a shorter time frame. It's hard when you get Kings busted twice by someone who hits their inside straight draw on the river. However, the fact that the other guy chased his straight draw to the river - ignoring pot odds - is the reason why these games are so good.

[CrackerZack]

Don't worry about being up as much as people here claim. I'd say probably 80% of them are full of $hit, probably more. Read/Post in the small stakes and micro stakes forums and you should be on your way in no time.

For some comical honesty, I consider my favorite fact in my pokertracker to be that my Empire name is the most losing player in my DB. And its by a lot. VERY GOOD STUFF! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[noddyholder]

Thanks for the advise Cracker