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CrisBrown
01-02-2004, 03:18 AM
Hi All,

I thought I'd toss a question out to the field and see how others feel about this lovely game we play:

What do you lose when you lose?

There are obviously a lot of answers to this. Do you lose money? Digits in your bankroll? Self-esteem? Relative human worth? The grace of the poker gods? Nothing at all?

It sounds like a silly question, but if you're going to play poker seriously, it's not at all a silly question. Depending on how you answer it, you're may have serious problems when you hit a long losing streak (and if you haven't yet, you will).

I'm not saying there is any "right" answer, but I do think there are some vulnerable answers. I would include in that list any answer which involves your sense of self, or your worth as a human being. I used to wrestle with this. When I lost a few tourneys in a row, I'd inflict negative self-talk upon myself. God/The Universe/the poker gods were out to get me. The losses just proved that I shouldn't try to enjoy anything because it'll always turn sour. Etc. Etc.

That will do worse than put your game on tilt. It will put your life on tilt. I became withdrawn, hardly talking to my partner or children, not getting my writing done (I'm a novelist), and generally sinking into depression. And all because I lost a few poker tournaments.

Not good.

What changed for me (besides experience) was coming to the conclusion that I'm just playing for digits in a bankroll. It isn't "money" until I withdraw it. And that has really helped me.

A couple of weeks ago, I had a tough run for a few days, for a net loss of about $800. I wasn't happy about it, but neither was I all that worried. I didn't look at it as having lost three months' electric bill, or a month's groceries, or half a mortgage payment. And it certainly didn't make me any less worthy a person, a partner, or a mother. It was just digits in a bankroll, and I knew I'd win it back and more once things turned.

That change has made it a lot easier to play poker as a second job. It's no different from a commissioned sales job. You can do your very best work, and sometimes you just won't get the sale and the paycheck. And other times it's as if they're just shoveling money at you. Over the long run, your paycheck is a function of talent and plain hard work, in terms of study, focus, and self-analysis. But in the short term ... well, there's a reason they call it "gambling" and not "banking."

So ... what do you lose when you lose?

Cris

William
01-02-2004, 03:26 AM
When I lost a few tourneys in a row, I'd inflict negative self-talk upon myself.

Do you usually win all the tourneys you play? /images/graemlins/grin.gif
I thought I had quite a good tourney record, but if I got depressed every time I "lost a few tourneys in a row" I would have shot myself 1000 times by now.

I remotely remember once, not winning a multitable tourney for 2 weeks. It was very hard. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

CrisBrown
01-02-2004, 03:37 AM
Hiya William,

[ QUOTE ]
Do you usually win all the tourneys you play?
I thought I had quite a good tourney record, but if I got depressed every time I "lost a few tourneys in a row" I would have shot myself 1000 times by now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I place in the money about 60% of the time -- playing two-table SNGs on PokerStars -- so it's relatively rare for me to bust out more than three in a row. It happens, sure, but not that often.

Cris

William
01-02-2004, 03:49 AM
Ok, you're talking about the S&G (2 tables?).
Do you play at pokerstars? if so what is your nick? I am MobyDick, also a regular at the 20-50 S&G.
Anyway, loosing streaks, even at the soft S&G are not uncommon, and to answer your original question, the only thing i loose is my interest for the S&G (for a couple of days) I deal with it by spending some time at the ring tables. Change of pace so to speak. But as you said, one knows that it will come back. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Al Schoonmaker
01-09-2004, 09:53 PM
Cris,
I didn't know you were a novelist. I'm jealous. I've always wanted to write fiction, but...
John Feeney wrote an article for Poker Digest about two years ago. He said that he did not play tournaments because the wins were too far apart. Some high level tournament players have commented recently that today's larger fields and bigger prizes come at a price. The fields are so large that everyone wins less often. Some of them have said they are winning much more money, but having much less fun.
I have an unusual attitude toward losing: If I never lost, I would stop playing. Why? Because it's impossible to enjoy winning if it happens all the time. Poker would become a boring "job," and I already have an interesting one.
Your post showed that you think clearly and carefully, not just about poker strategy, but about more important subjects.
Regards,
Al

shemp
01-09-2004, 11:30 PM
I'm shipwrecked on a ship, yesterday ahead of me, castaway, overlooking The Island of the Day Before.

(You're the Eco guy, right?)

The thing I lose win I lose is the same as the thing I lose when I win: the present. Well, that and some scratch.

CrisBrown
01-10-2004, 12:20 AM
Hi Al,

Thanks for the kind words.

As for being jealous ... I have one word for you: deadlines....

Cris

Mike Gallo
01-10-2004, 01:23 AM
So ... what do you lose when you lose?

Different levels of losing exist. Do you mean the constant suckouts where nothing will go your way?

I played in a big buy in tournament event recently. I lost with KK against 66, no set he flopped an open ender and went all in. I responded by playing in a good $5-$10 ring game and recouping my money.

I understand that I will have one losing session in three. As long as I dont make fundamental mistakes, losing doesnt bother me.

I consider losing, having three losing months in a row. I endured a strech like that once. It did not feel pleasant however I survived.

When you gain more experience, the losses will no longer effect you. If they do, well..you might have other questions within yourself you need answered.

Lawrence Ng
01-10-2004, 03:21 AM
Hi CrisBrown,

Every morning I get up and make my salute to the poker gods and tell them that I will make many lamb sacrifices on their behalf should they favor me at the tables that night /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Honesty, I think you outlined it pretty well. Poker is really just one long game imo. I haven't had the opportunities to play a lot of tourneys, but I treat all the live games as one super never ending long session.

You know what I am amazed about with this game. Truly, the more you understand and study it - the less you know. There is always some way to increase your EV no matter how good you are.

After playing 7 years, so many things come secondary to me now. A lot of things that use to be very hard for me to do - like figure out certain tells, reads, pot odds, etc come very naturally to me. Losing streaks fit into this category as well. They come and go and I've been through enough of my fair share to know how to deal with it.

As for tilt, I still go on it every now and then and each time I wind up making bad decisions that end up costing me than I would have if I did not go on tilt.

"The key to poker as stated many times before is about making correct decisions. Lose or win is not the problem because if the right decision is made each time, then you will be a winner in the long run." That's what I keep telling myself whenever I feel down anyways - and it works.

As for treating poker as a job - never. I play primarily because I enjoy it. The socialization aspect is a great plus for me, but unfortunately many others I play with are not so. They do play for a living and it's sad that they cannot try to enjoy it as oppose to "grinding" it out without even cracking a smile when they drag a nice pot down. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

csuf_gambler
01-14-2004, 04:44 AM
i lose my rent money

Kurn, son of Mogh
01-14-2004, 11:16 AM
Good post, Cris. Like you, I view it mostly as digits in my bankroll. When said bankroll gets to a certain target, X% of it will become money and I will withdraw it, leaving myself with, again, digits in my bankroll.

Boris
01-14-2004, 05:36 PM
Alot of friggin money. It makes me sick every time.

One time I lost $5k cash in one pot (PL). Took me about at week to get over that one.

On numerous occaisions I've lost $1500+ in one session. That's always a fun drive home.

These sickening losses are one reason I'm always skeptical when I read about people who want to play poker on the side and make a little extra money. You can do. I do it. But you should be a sick gambler at heart and enjoy the game. Otherwise the emotional toll extracted by variance is not worth it, IMO.