Ahhh, perseverance

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

After three days of prtty rough sailing, a realtively cold deck, and plenty of bad beats (down about 70BB in 8 hours of play), the odds came back around in my favor. My big cards stood up all day today, and I posted a 127BB(!) profit in three and a half hours at the $.5/$1 tables on PP. There's something to be said for discipline and patience, and I'm learning that...slowly. I was pretty happy with the way I played most of my hands today, but there's one in particular I wanted to ask if I played correctly.

Dealt K /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif in MP1 (4th to act preflop). UTG+1 limps, I limp (raise here?), LP raises, button and SB fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, I call. Four to the flop for 4.25BB.

Flop: 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gifA /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Checked to the preflop raiser, who bets. BB folds, UTG+1 calls, I call getting 10:1 to spike a ten, and I figure I'm getting even better implied odds. Does anyone fold this here?

Turn: T /images/graemlins/club.gif

Excellent. UTG+1 bets, I raise, LP coldcalls, UTG+1 3-bets, I cap, LP and UTG+1 call.

River: 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

My hand is the absolute nuts. UTG+1 bets, I raise, LP coldcalls, UTG+1 makes it three I cap, both call. MHIG, don't see what they have (figure LP had AQ and UTG+1 AT or TT, but who knows.) $28.75 pot /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Comments?

[spamuell]

I play it the same way as you after the flop. Nice hand.

I fold KJo in MP with 1 limper to me with barely a second thought (in fact, unless I'm in the blinds or it is folded to me in late position and then I'll raise, I almost always fold KJo pre-flop). I usually play KJs.

Is this generally considered normal, or too tight?

[GuidoSarducci]

KJo is generally pretty weak to call from middle position. You want to play this cheap, if at all, preflop, so generally you want nothing to do with this hand unless you're late position or the button and can be reletively sure you're not going to face a raise.

Post flop, you're getting 6:1 pot odds for a 10:1 draw against a board with an overcard and a possible flush draw. I think it's a mistake to continue here, even though you've got the button now.

Barring the idea that you really should never have been there, your play from the turn on looks good.

[brian0729]

Hey Gravy.

Pre flop: If you respect the UTG+1 at all, this should go in the muck. He can have a lot of hands that dominate you. If he is a loose and you want to play this then yes you need to raise here. You dont want a ton of people in a hand in which you are holding KJo

Flop: I think this call is very bad. There is only 5.25 SB's in the pot when it gets to you. You cant really count the T of hearts as an out. You really only have 3 outs plus runner runner hearts. Fold this and wait for a bigger pot.

Turn and River played themsleves.

Brian

[spamuell]

I do not play it the same way after the flop, I misread your message and saw you said you were getting 10:1 to spike a T - I thought you meant those were your pot odds, I didn't realise you were talking about your card odds. Isn't it closer to 11:1?

I should have read your message more carefully and seen you were getting much much less than the 10:1 I thought. Sorry, don't be misled by my previous message. Fold the flop.

[toddw8]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't there 10.5 sb's in the pot when it gets to Gravy on the flop? Preflop there are 4 callers for 2 sb's a piece and .5 sb from the small blind, then the bettor and one caller on the flop.

[brian0729]

You are correct. I read the 4.25 for small bets. This makes it much closer and with the runner runner possibility I would call this.

Wow. I made such a glaring error that you had to make your first post to correct me. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[spamuell]

OK, so I read BB as BB, then I thought it said SB, then I thought it said BB again! I do make this flop call, but I probably wouldn't have seen the flop with KJo from MP with 1 limper.

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

Hey all-

Thanks for the input. I didn't have a real good read on UTG+1, and my default case for $.5/$1 players is that they are too loose, so I was hesitant to give him credit. I didn't realize that KJo is such a weak hand, and I will take this into account in the future.

Also won a $5/$1 single-table limit tourney today. Sweet.

[bisonbison]

The problem with KJo is not that it's weak, but that it tends to just make a top pair type hand, and it is easy to overestimate it's strength. Occasionally, you will make a dominated hand - you have the same pair, but he outkicks you (i.e. someone has AJ or AK) and give back a lot of your earnings.

There are quite a few broadway hands like this: AQo being the other prime example that people get in trouble with. If you call a raise with AQo or AJo and flop an ace, it can be very expensive to find out you were behind the whole way to AK.

So yeah, not weak, but a lot more dangerous to your bankroll than most new players (myself included) give it credit for.

[Ed Miller]

In a soft game, I'd play KJo in that position. In a tough game, I'd muck it.

You should clearly call on the flop with your gutshot/backdoor nut flush draw.