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Mikey
12-31-2003, 06:05 PM
3-6 Online. I'm in the SB with TT. Mid position Raises., Cutoff Calls cold. I 3-bet. They both call.

The flop is....

J 9 4r.

I lead out and both call.

The turn comes a 7.

I lead out, and the original raisers raises. and the cutoff calls cold??

What do you do?

JTG51
12-31-2003, 06:18 PM
I can't imagine doing anything but calling. You are likely behind and won't get a better hand to fold so raising is bad, but you're getting 11-1 and likely have 6 outs so folding is really bad.

Ulysses
12-31-2003, 06:20 PM
I'd call and hope for an 8 or Ten. I wouldn't 3-bet pre-flop from the SB.

Mikey
12-31-2003, 06:23 PM
Change that 7 to a 6. What would you do??

Ulysses
12-31-2003, 06:25 PM
Usually fold. Did it put a flush draw on the board?

Mikey
12-31-2003, 06:27 PM
no......no flush draw.

JTG51
12-31-2003, 06:32 PM
I had a feeling a change was coming to this one, otherwise it wasn't much of a question.

I think it's a fold now. You may be ahead of one opponent or the other, but it would be a heck of a parlay to be ahead of both.

Ulysses
12-31-2003, 06:34 PM
Fold. Sometimes the raiser will have A7 and the cold-caller will have A9 or QT. But if you want to find out, you're going to pay 2 bets to win 12 or 13. I think more than 5 out of 6 times one of these guys will have a Jack or better. And they'll improve on the river more times than you will.

chesspain
12-31-2003, 07:12 PM
I'ld go into my "way back" machine and try to nullify that terrible PF 3-bet. After an MP openlimp and a coldcall, I'ld only call for the 1.5SB, although I might be tempted to muck. Indeed, even if the BB calls, you're only getting 4:1 to try to spike a set or low rags, and if it's the latter, it may cost you more money to try to make it to the river as the winner.

Ulysses
12-31-2003, 07:25 PM
I agree that the 3-bet isn't great, but you can't be mucking TT here. In fact, I think 3-betting pre-flop is better than folding here.

Mike Gallo
12-31-2003, 07:50 PM
Preflop, I usually do not cap from the sb with 10 10 . I call. Three betting is not bad however I would just call.

I lead out and both call.

I would have check raised. If I got reraised, I will fold the turn if I do not improve or pick up some kind of draw that would give me additional outs.

I lead out, and the original raisers raises. and the cutoff calls cold??

With the 7 on the turn call, if the the six drops on the turn, fold. Someone has a Jack or better here. Your drawing dead to a set of Jacks. You have outs against a set of nines or AJ KJ or JQ. You destroy J10.

Unless your against total maniacs here, only two cards can help you. That means the pot needs to offer you 23:1 I do not think the pot offers you this.

Mikey
12-31-2003, 08:49 PM
well....on the turn, when i lead out again when a brick hit, The orignal raiser raised, and the cold caller called again!!

I said I'm beat....and there is no use in continuing...I think I would fold here 100% of the time.

Anyway the turn turn was a 10, which doesn't even matter. But...I did pound my desk with a fist.

On the river it got checked by the raiser and the cutoff fires out.....and the original raiser calls.

Orignal raiser shows AQo and the cold caller...shows KTo.

Then I punched the BED even harder because it wouldn't hurt my hand..because it had a cushion. LOL.

Isn't that funny though....

Ulysses
12-31-2003, 09:04 PM
Hey, that's almost exactly the scenario I outlined! The PFR raises w/ crap and the cold-caller calls w/ a straight draw (he had a double gutter here v. the open ender I stated as a possibility).

That's why you can call here on the turn getting far less than the [a lot]:1 you'd need if you knew you were drawing to 2 outs. But I don't think this pot was big enough to call. Good fold.