Heads-up

I have heard someone say that in a heads-up situation that it is better to check and call than it is to bet and raise. He said that it was stated in a siminar. What does the group think?

If you have nothing (like an AK that misses the flop) and you are heads up, I would get very aggressive and bet, unless I am with an absolute calling station. Even then I might bet if I think he has nothing either. I would very seldom check and call in this situation, unless I am against an absolute maniac or I have flopped a monster. In most situations I would get very aggressive when heads up, much more so than multiway.


Tim

you are probably correct, but it occurs to me that if he has nothing he folds; if he has a pair or a draw he calls you down; and if he has or catches a good hand he reraises - none of these are good for you, except perhaps where he had nothing and folded before he caught - but then again maybe that is the long term small edge you need?


isn't your best profit when you have a good hand and he calls with lesser pair or draw?

You raise some good points, I just tend to get really aggressive heads up. I have been really influenced by reading Bob Ciaffone, and one of his biggest points of emphasize, both in MLHP, and Improve Your Poker, is that you get aggressive in a heads up or 3 way pot when all you have is overcards.

I think the reason is, say you have AK, and the flop is Q-T-2 rainbow. Say your opponent, like so many do, called your preflop raise with 9-2 suited or some such garbage. If you just check it down against him, and neither of you improves, then he wins the pot with his pair of twos. You don't want this to happen. If you bet into him on the flop, and again on the turn, it is going to be very hard for him to keep calling. And if you both have nothing, then you would like to force him out by the turn, rather than have him catch that same bottom pair on the river, or back into that backdoor flush. Basically you just want to keep him from beating you with bottom pair or catching something on the last card when you do not catch.


Tim

of course that is a good counter-argument on paper


and i accept that you have only given a quick example for ease of demonstration


but again i wonder about certain elements


using your example, would he have come into a raised pot with 92? if he was that type of player, he would probably be overjoyed at catching a pair, heads-up, whatever it was, and he would call you down - he is winning (even though he doesn't know it for sure), he is getting reasonable pot odds by now, and he has five outs if one of your six outs catches - the best i can see for you is catching one of the three Aces on the turn - now THAT might scare him off - but it don't happen too often!


if he had caught a higher pair, you probably couldn't chase him off with a fly-swat


yes, i can see there are a few times where the raising strategy will win a pot that the cards shouldn't have, but, again, it seems to me that most of the wins will be when your cards were ahead anyway - on which occasions you have 39 of the 45 cards in the deck working for you and only his six can harm you - so why not check it down at very little risk? if someone's "out" does hit, it is 50%/50% that it is one of yours in any case

here are some interesting figures:


let's say there are $40 in the pot in a $10-$20 game at the flop


you have KQs and he has 92o with a flop of QJ2r


from this point in the hand your KQs will win 80% of the time


to call you down will cost him $50


out of 100 hands he will win 20 x ($50 + $40) = $1800


out of 100 hands he will lose 80 x $50 = $4000


change your hand to AKs and you will win only 38% of hands


out of 100 hands he will win 62 x ($50 + $40) = $5580


out of 100 hands he will lose 38 x $50 = $1900


if he knows you are betting EITHER two high cards OR a high pair, by calling you down over 200 hands:


he will win $7380


and he will lose $5900


= net profit of $1480 to him


= profit of $7.40 per hand to him

Mike,

I am not very good at articulating my position, my recommendation to you would be to read the section on playing overcards in either "Improve Your Poker," or "Middle Limit Holdem Poker," by Bob Ciaffone (and Jim Brier for the latter). That is where I get my approach from re this situation.

In my experience (mainly at 3-6 games), quite often you will raise preflop with AK, and get one or two callers. Quite often no one flops much of anything, and that includes you. I know even these horrible opponents will not call a raise cold with 92 suited or some such hand, but almost anyone will call a raise if they already have one bet in the pot. What typically occurs is I have AK, two people limp to me, and I raise, often shutting out everyone behind me. Even though they wouldn't cold call with their garbage hand, near to 100% of players will call another bet if they already limped in.

In my experience it is very frequent for someone to have something like bottom pair, and for you to just have overcard. In this scenario, even the worst of calling stations will usually fold on the turn. Ciaffone addresses this as well, very seldom will they fold to your bet on the flop, but if someone has nothing or low pair, they will usually cave in to another bet on the turn when the limits double.

If you are still unconvinced, I would recommend the essay on bluffing opportunities here in the 2 plus 2 essays section. Go to the 2 plus 2 opening page and click on guest essays, the guy who wrote it has an indian sounding name and covers this situation and similar ones very thoroughly.

The key to remember is you have to pick your spots with these. If you have more than 2 opponents it is generally a bad idea. It also helps if you have a ragged board of 3 little cards or two little, one big.

Maybe I haven't explained this too well; please check the other sources for a better explanation. All I can say is while I might not be a great player, great players recommend this play across the board in the right situation, and they know what they are talking about, even if I do not.

Good luck,

Tim

Hey Mike,

The name of the essay is "Profitable Bluffs in Hold 'em," by Sudhir Padmanahban (sp?). Just go to the left hand column on your screen, and click on Essays. Then scroll down to Guest Essays and you will see it. The play we are discussing the merits of is discussed in detail in this essay. Hope this helps.


Tim