Do most people here move up in limits whenever they can?

[Sooga]

I've been playing online poker for about 2 years now, and I've made a good amount of money doing so. In fact, my friends ask me why I don't try playing higher limits, since I've won enough to be properly bankrolled for a 10/20 online game, should I choose to start playing in them. But you know what, I really don't want to.

My friends that play poker are always looking to win big so they can move on up to the next limit and keep moving on up, but I don't see the big attraction. Is it the money? The challenge? I could probably make more per hour playing in a 10/20 online game, but obviously my variances will go through the roof, and I really don't like that. Poker is just a part-time job, and I have a regular income, but losing thousands of dollars at a bad night in a higher limit game is something I don't think I'd be able to take mentally. Basically what it comes down to is I'd rather not lose $1000 in a game than win $1000. Playing in my lower limit tables is very low stress, and there are a lot more truly awful players there, so I can still win a decent enough amount to make it worth my while, so I think I'll just stick around.

Do a lot of you share my mentality? Or are most of you just looking to make a big score and keep moving up?

[J.R.]

[ QUOTE ]
Basically what it comes down to is I'd rather not lose $1000 in a game than win $1000. Playing in my lower limit tables it's very low stress, and there are a lot more truly awful players there, so I can still win a decent enough amount to make it worth my while, so I think I'll just stick around.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree wholeheartedly. I have a fulltime job and don't need the extra stress of a more competitive game. I am happy with what I currently earn and the consistency with which I acheive my modest goals yet I still keep learning and improving my game. I feel no rush to tinker with forumula that works.

[onegymrat]

Well spoken. I completely agree. I play live only, and feel that though I may have the bankroll to move up to the $15-$30, I really don't want to. Though it can still be a grind, I have been fairly successful making a small income from the green chip games. I don't see it as a good trade-off from winning small amounts regularly, to the potential of making much more money (or losing much more) and triple the stress. How much is enough? Unless I do this as a full-time job, I don't see why you should boost yourself further and further without really having a desire to.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
Do a lot of you share my mentality? Or are most of you just looking to make a big score and keep moving up?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm looking to improve and keep improving. I feel the only way to do that is to keep moving up in limits.

Don't get me wrong, I look for the "best games" to play in at the limits I'm comfortable with. I moved to Party when the games there got good.

I'm not in it for the gamble, but I want to improve and the part of improving is playing against better players.

[Diplomat]

Well, it looks like you aleady know your answer. Moving up is a personal choice, not a simple number crunch.

-Diplomat

[KingNothing]

I actually chose to stay at the lower limits for the most part too, and only venture up now and then. The risk of losing in the low limit games is extremely small and the profits are nice and steady.

[DrSavage]

I'd say its just one more application of Peter's Principle. Every person tries to reach its own level of incompetence. Not falling for that is a key to successful poker career i think.

[J_V]

You get used to the mental part. I remember thinking how crazy the 10-20 players must be to risk that much money. That's when I was at 1-2. Now that I've played 100-200, you realize that's it just immunity to money. Eventually the biggest win at your limit will bore you. Then, you'll want to try something knew I think. Let's say you win 100k at 5-10. Is a 500 day gonna interest you? Or maybe I'm just a compulsive gambler talking.

I took a long time to move up. I tread slowly and carefully, but I did eventually.

[Sooga]

See, that's the thing... I don't think I'll ever be 'immune' to that sorta money, assuming I don't win the lotto anytime soon. I doubt that all top pros can lose, say, 200k when they're having a bad run in a 300/600 game and just shrug it off. I'm sure there's a pretty loud voice in their head that says, "Christ, I just lost two hundred THOUSAND dollars!" Personally I don't think I can ever turn that voice off.

After winning for a long time, you're right, a $500 day may not interest me much, but I assure you a $1,000 loss will interest me plenty. I dunno, maybe I'm just a risk-averse nancy boy.

[BottlesOf]

I started with $100. I'm now a well-budgeted 3/6 player, but I too do NOT like losing money, and I get nervous during big down swings. I've only recently moved up to 3/6, and I've done very well in that time. I've not had any major setbacks (40 BB was the biggest setback). While I have enough to move up to 4/8 and will soon have enough to move up to 5/10 (hopefully), I don't plan on doing so until I have a real bad streak at 3/6, and know that I can handle losing 100 or more BB before I risk losing it at a higher level. Does this kind of reasoning make sense? Does anyone feel me?

[CrisBrown]

Hi Sooga,

I think it depends on why you play. If poker is a hobby, then it makes sense to play at stakes which are comfortable and secure, where your hobby isn't going to cost you a lot of money, and where the inevitable losing streaks aren't going to ruin your enjoyment of the game.

If poker is a business, then it obviously makes sense to "give yourself a raise" when you've earned it. That is, move up in stakes when your bankroll and your skill level are ready, so you can make the higher hourly rate.

For me, poker is a second job, and I select games and play to get the highest hourly rate I can.

Cris

[Duke]

Well, you're never broke, are you? T is never broke, and could play bigger than he does too. I guess it's all about what you want out of the game. I want an income, but I also want to keep getting better. And getting better may sometimes involve taking shots at games that I'm not mentally or financially ready for. I know you don't care about that part of it. You'd be content playing 5-10 your whole life and having a decent extra income. But I would never want to be Roy West.

Oh, we're all out of blackberry pancakes! Get out of my sanctum, and kill the light on your way out.

~D

[scotnt73]

i feel ya. im currently winning at 2/4 and doing very well at it. im trying to decide why i should move to 3/6 when im making a killing at 2/4. im sure ill get bored with destroying 2/4 pretty soon and move up to 3/6. my big delima is once i start beating 3/6 will i buy a new graphics card so i can play 2 games on 2 monitors at the same time or move up to the next level.

[David Steele]

I think the move up to 10-20, 15-30, 20-40 is a lot different in nature then moving up to very high limits.

In the low limits, you can't make good value for your time compared to an ok job. Maybe if you are playing multiple tables you can do it but then it is more of a grind and not an enjoyable poker competition.

Playing live, the rake makes it almost mandatory to move to the middle limits.

D.

[ZeeJustin]

I agree with ChrisBrown on this. It really depends on why you are playing. If you plan to play for a living in the future, you should certainly deal with your anxiety over having a cold run. It's very important for a poker player to be stoic IMO.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
but I too do NOT like losing money, and I get nervous during big down swings.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel your pain. I lost $400 playing 5/10 in 3 hours (2 tables) the other day. That hurt for some reason. I never lost that much at 3/6 in 1 session. I didn't care for that at all. But I've won it back in a few sessions, and in time I guess I will get used to the bigger swings, just like I did when I moved up from the other limits. Least I hope I will.

[blubster]

simple, if you're not comfortable with the fact that you're gonna lose $1000 or so in a bad week, which it seems that you're not, dont move up.

if you ever have enough where something like that is not gonna bother you then move up

blubster

[Fitz]

A story goes that Nick the Greek once lost 500k in a private crap game at a big party. After a few minutes to freshen up, Nick was seen out on the dance floor laughing and having a great time. A friend approached Nick and asked how could he be laughing after losing so much. Nick replied, "It's only money; your life doesn't go with it."

I would think that is the attitude a serious high roller would have to have.

Good luck all,

[Sooga]

Yea but I don't think most people go into a craps game expecting to win. I wouldn't walk up to a craps game with $1,000 because I wouldn't really expect myself to still have it a few hours later. But when I walk into a mid-limit hold'em game with $1,000, it'll really sting me if I lose it, because I think I'm good enough to win. Obviously session to session anything can happen, but I have a completely different mindset losing in a -EV game.

[peacemaker]

never gamble with money your not willing to lose. If your scared about losing then your may not play winning poker. It will be better to play your best poker at a level you are comfortable with than play scared.

Peacemaker

[bigpooch]

No, most people don't move up. Several of them reach some
comfort level and don't have aspirations to become world
beaters. Also, a lot of players are quite content to play
several 3-6 LHE ring games because the games are still so
soft. On the other hand, the earn as one moves up in limits
do tempt many players to move up but some of them don't have
the skills to adjust to the higher limits and then settle
back to where they were before; also, many players aren't
sufficiently bankrolled to play much higher on a regular
basis. The edge overall is smaller and the games become
more and more aggressive without many multiway pots and so
the bankroll requirements are bigger in terms of bets.

Even for those that keep moving up, there comes a point that
the game is so big that it might be better to put one's
bankroll into different uses: investing, starting a business
or other possibilities. Also, there aren't necessarily
going to be many games spread at certain limits: how many
games are going to be bigger than 100-200 and smaller than
1000-2000?

[Leonardo]

Its all about how much money you have. There is a guy from Australia named Kerry Packer, who is worth about $5 Billion. He has lost 15-20 Mill in a single night on a few occasions. He compares it to a normal person losing 100 or 200 in a night, slightly annoying, but not going to change your life in any way. Nick the Greek didnt bet as large as Kerry Packer does, maybe he didnt have as much money.

[J_V]

It helps to have someone you know do it move to the higher limit before you. That helped me at least. Also, you are probably underestimating your ability to become immune.

Let's say you moved up and one early, then you could justify bigger losses by saying well I would never have won XXX amount if i hadn't moved up, so this loss isn't that big of a deal.

Whatever you are playing now, I would make bet at some point in your life you regularly play higher. I consider myself way risk-adverse. I remember refusing to play 1-2 in a homegame cuz it was too high.

[phish]

There are two types of winning poker players: grinders and gamblers.
It's not surprising that many people who post on these web-sites tend to be grinders. They're people who are interested in studying up on the game, taking a cautious approach with their money. They likely play a tight solid game, but the best can also be aggressive and tricky and play shorthanded well. They will move up, but slowly. And many will settle into a level that they're competent at and stay there. The advantage of being a grinder is that they'll never go broke. The disadvantage is that they probably are not making as much as they could because they're probably playing below their optimal level.

Gamblers on the other hand, instead of relying on study to be a winning player, seem to have more natural talent. They have more heart and can play a very aggressive game. This image gets them more action, and allows them to run over some games. As long as they don't go overboard, they, surprising to the grinder types, actually do quite well. These guys also tend to move up in stakes very rapidly. They have a much higher chance of going broke of course, but as long as they don't move up too fast for their bankroll, they can make more than the grinders cause they're willing to play bigger. Plus, their skills will actually increase faster than the grinders because their willingness to play bigger expose them to playing with better players. This exposure, plus their natural talent, allows to them to develop their games more rapidly.

[ACPlayer]

You have clearly defined your objectives in playing poker. Being comfortable with the risk is one. Stay at the limits you are comfortable at.

I see it often in card rooms. Player comes in beats the 4-8 game playing, month later is playing 40-80 and a month later is standing on the rails. That is being a action junkie. Yours is a mature approach to a pleasurable and profitable activity.

[Al Mirpuri]

Kerry Packer is worth £1.5 billion. He once offered to flip a coin for $100 million (some Texas oil millionaire was trying to impress his net worth on Packer). Nick the Greek is believed to have had $500 million pass through his hands over his lifetime.

[Leonardo]

Kerry is worth significantly more than 1.5 Billion pounds. He is worth about 6.5 Bill $AUS which is about 4.5 Bill US$ and nearly 3 Bill pounds. And as for that bet, it was for significantly more than 100 mill. Not the point anyway, the point is that he is betting a tonne of money, but to him it is nothing, just like me losing a $100 or something like that. Actually, more like me losing about $10. or maybe...., well im not worth so much:)