Do Not Play at Paradise Poker

[oldmanriver]

To: support@paradisepoker.com
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:43:04 -0500
Subject: Frustrated

I am seriously questioning the legitimacy of your site after about a 3-week long track record of bad beats and improbable calls. I've copied (below) the latest hand in my frustration with paradise poker for your review. I've had numerous calls by people who I've had beaten only to suffer the inevitable bad beat. With the example hand below, I'm out drawn by two people that were clearly beaten on the flop. This has happened at least two dozen times over the last 3 weeks. I play enough to know that a percentage of my hands would have held up in live play. My frustration is running so high that it will be a long time before I put my money back into this site.


Game #409756065 - Tournament Island+$400 - 25/50 No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2003/12/28-15:24:20 (CST)
Table "Island+$400 225" (MTT) -- Seat 10 is the button
Seat 1: sombit (1,405 in chips)
Seat 2: toolman03 (4,310 in chips)
Seat 3: Bluebolt (1,180 in chips)
Seat 4: yes i can (2,600 in chips)
Seat 5: Lenrisk (1,250 in chips)
Seat 6: SASSYLIN (1,410 in chips)
Seat 7: nickybaby (2,610 in chips)
Seat 8: danno25 (1,615 in chips)
Seat 9: --DARK1-- (1,845 in chips)
Seat 10: oldmanriver (1,410 in chips)
sombit : Post Small Blind (25)
toolman03: Post Big Blind (50)
Dealing...
Dealt to oldmanriver [ Jc ]
Dealt to oldmanriver [ Qh ]
Bluebolt: Call (50)
yes i can: Call (50)
Lenrisk : Fold
SASSYLIN: Fold
nickybaby: Fold
danno25 : Fold
--DARK1--: Raise (200)
oldmanriver: Call (200)
sombit : Fold
toolman03: Call (150)
Bluebolt: Call (150)
yes i can: Fold
*** FLOP *** : [ Td 8s 9s ]
toolman03: Check
Bluebolt: Check
--DARK1--: Bet (400)
oldmanriver: Raise (800)
toolman03: Call (800)
Bluebolt: Fold
--DARK1--: Raise (1,245)
oldmanriver: Call All-in (410)
toolman03: Call (845)
*** TURN *** : [ Td 8s 9s ] [ Ts ]
*** RIVER *** : [ Td 8s 9s Ts ] [ 9h ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 4,505 | Side pot 1: 870 | Board: [ Td 8s 9s Ts 9h ]
sombit lost 25 (folded)
toolman03 bet 1,845, collected 5,375, net +3,530 (showed hand) [ 7s Tc ] (a full house, tens full of nines)
Bluebolt lost 200 (folded)
yes i can lost 50 (folded)
Lenrisk didn't bet (folded)
SASSYLIN didn't bet (folded)
nickybaby didn't bet (folded)
danno25 didn't bet (folded)
--DARK1-- lost 1,845 (showed hand) [ 3s 6s ] (a flush, ten high)
oldmanriver lost 1,410 (showed hand) [ Jc Qh ] (a straight, eight to queen)
-----------------------------------------------------
If you have any questions regarding this hand history,
please contact us at support@paradisepoker.com

[taxat]

Why did you call the raise preflop?

[GrinningBuddha]

Oddly, I find myself wanting to play at Paradise MORE now that I've seen that hand.

[Eihli]

What are you hoping this post will accomplish?

[rigoletto]

Do Not Play at Paradise Poker

Let me see if I get this right: Because you lose the rest of us should stop palying there?

[GrinningBuddha]

Apparently being a 2-1 favorite on the flop and <gasp> losing is cause for boycotting a site. If it were me, I'd want to play with these folks as often as possible!

[Gabe]

Do you guys play this bad all of time or just in the tournaments?

[harboral]

I understand your frustration - but welcome to the world of poker. These are the players that good players beat on a regular basis, but short-term, anybody can win, and believe me, a guy calling with 6/3 suited and trying to make a flush is no surprise. I got beat yesterday on two hands with a lot higher odds than you:
I have 7/7 and get my raise called by an Ace/7 - the flop is 4-7-Q and the other player calls...........he can only win with running aces - he got both, a 329.5 to one shot. BUT, thats not all............ couple hands later I reraise a player with my 3-aces on the flop and a third player calls with pocket deuces - you guessed it, runner-runner deuces on the turn and river - that's a 990 to 1 shot...............so live with your 2-1 odds loss.

[Terenth]

I've played at Paradise for a long time and am confident that their games are not fixed.

And that was a tournament hand. I've seen ALL SORTS of crazy improbable draws drag pots in tournaments. Especially low buy-in tournaments.

[Joe Tall]

So, what you are saying is that a there is this tilting-bad-player that calls raises preflop w/QJo NOT going to be on Paradise anymore...

So, what site is this player going to?? Where can I follow him?

Love,
Joe Tall

[kmprsdrm]

He had top pair plus a str8t draw. Not the strongest hand to go all in, but i've seen much much worse calls; especially in tournaments where many want to double up or go home.

[ctv1116]

People,

Realize that this was a freeroll tournament that anybody (even those without ever making a deposit--essentially play money players) could enter. I play these all the time, and sometimes when I get bored or I just need to go somewhere else, I'll go all-in on anything. Also, calling all-in with top pair + open ended straight draw, albeit not a smart play, is feasible.

[mosch]

As far as I can tell, the problems begin when you get 250 chips voluntarily involved in a pot with JQo, which is a 2:1 dog to random hands of group 1-4, does not play well in multi-way pots, and it should've been mucked.

Then you played a straight hard against people who were willing to go all-in with a flush draw, and with a pair and an open-ended straight draw.

If you had been playing with your cards face up, you'd have been able to tell that while you were ahead, you were by no means assured a win at any point in the hand.
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Odds of winning: JcQh 3s6s Tc7s
Pre-Flop: 47.8% 26.6% 25.6%
Flop: 63.6% 30.0% 6.4%
Turn: 0.0% 59.5% 40.5%
</pre><hr />

[Mike Gallo]

[mosch]

If I had realized this was a freeroll, I wouldn't have bothered with calculations in my reply /images/graemlins/smile.gif

As an example of how badly people play in freerolls, I just won a lasts longer bet in the paradise freeroll, where we agreed that we'd both go all-in every ten hands, no matter what our cards were.

[rusty JEDI]

Checking all of his posts his first post at 2+2 was this beauty, copied below for easy reading... here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=319122&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb =5&amp;o=&amp;vc=1)


[ QUOTE ]

A couple of new acquaintances asked me to play poker with them on a monthly basis. I'm an average player and typically am a small winner. At a social get together, these two gentlemen strike up an impromptu game. They call a couple of people and whisk me off to another associate's house for a night of cards. At first I didn't feel like going because I worked all day (up at 5:00 am) and was feeling tired. To be social, I agreed. I went home, got my clay chips and a new pack of cards and off we went. I played for 4 hours, didn't win a hand and ended up being the big loser. Later the next day, I noticed that the J had a definite crease (brand new deck). Last month I couldn't make it but another friend of mine did. He was the big loser. I should also mention that these two guys haven't played alone yet and frequently take junkets to casinos. Any advise? What should I watch for?

[/ QUOTE ]

[oldmanriver]

You are all RIGHT!!!!
I apologize and have gotten over my anger &amp; frustration.

Thanks for letting me vent - as I was so pissed. I have had better days.

Paradise Poker is a good place to play and encourage all you to try it out.

My medication kicked in and I'm ready to try it again. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[crockpot]

so in other words, you cold called a raise of 4xBB in a tournament with QJo (an utterly insane play), then assume the site is rigged when a flopped flush draw beats you?

you really need to calm down your emotions if you want to play online. if you are paranoid, you're never going to get around it to win big. if you think switching to a new site will help with that, go ahead.