A twist on a Lee Jones low limit flop strategy...

[Ray Of Light]

I am sat at a 6-seater low limit table. I am holding Qc and 4c in the BB.

D: Game started with 5 players.

D: Dealing Hole Cards.
D: Player 1 folded.
D: Player 2 called
D: Button called
D: SB called
D: I checked.

D: Dealing flop.
D: Board cards [7d 4s 8c]
D: SB checked.
D: I checked.
D: Player 2 bet
D: Button called
D: SB called
D: I called

My thinking at this point is that in Lee Jones LLH book he says that if you miss the flop, but you hold two over cards AND three to a back door flush, you can call cheaply to see the turn, but if the turn doesn't improve your hand then you should get out of the betting

With my hand, I had three to a backdoor flush and a small pair with an over card kicker. My stratergy was that I had three to a flush, a pair that could become three of a kind and the queen over card, which would give me top two pair (as the board currently stands). The board had no flush draws, but had a possible straight draw. Should I have been more wary of a possible straight draw? And should my hand have warrented an immediate fold on the flop?

D: Dealing turn.
D: Board cards [7d 4s 8c 4h]
D: SB checked.
D: I checked.
D: Player 2 checked.
D: Button checked.

Even though I was trying to set a trap here, in hindsight I feel that I should have bet out. But in my defence, I was hoping player 2 would bet his hand again on the turn, so that I could re-raise him and force any possible straight draw to call for incorrect pot odds. However, right now I know I have the best hand but it is still vulnerable to a higher trip on the river, or anyone still holding a possible straight draw.

D: Dealing river.
D: Board cards [7d 4s 8c 4h Ts]
D: SB checked.
D: I bet
D: Player 2 called
D: Button folded.
D: SB folded.
D: I win with 3 of a Kind: 4s


Player 2 mucked his hand, but I figure that he had a pair of eights and was simply clinging on. I doubt that he held a busted straight draw on the flop (he isn't a bluffer), or a two pair (he would have raised, certainly at the river).

My question is that maybe I should have folded this on the flop. I decided that with a few strong multiple back door draws with my hand it would be a similar play as if I had played two over cards with three to a flush draw. Was I chasing, or am I correct in calling the small bet on the flop to see the turn?

Also, as an extra note, if I had missed the turn, I would have folded immediately.

[Clarkmeister]

You played this perfectly. Your preflop call is mandatory. Going for the turn checkraise is the way to go, and obviously you should bet the river once the turn is checked around. Well played.

[MrBlini]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, as an extra note, if I had missed the turn, I would have folded immediately.

[/ QUOTE ]You'd have checked and then folded, right?

The quick & dirty way of counting outs on the flop in this situation is to give yourself one out for a backdoor flush draw. Add that to the five other outs, and you have six. How many are good? Probably all six--there's no four, queen, or card to your backdoor flush that you don't want to see.

The pot is offering you 7:1, and with the equivalent of six outs, you have the equivalent of 7:1 odds on the card to come, not to mention the few extra bets you're likely to get when you make your hand. For a single bet, this should be an easy call.

If you didn't get a card you wanted on the turn, you would then have at best a five-outer with just the river card to come. You'd need 8:1 pot odds (and probably more) to call that, and the only way this pot is offering you 8:1 or better on the turn is if the turn is checked through. You would be correct to check-fold the turn if it missed.

[crockpot]

pretty borderline call. you have about seven outs to improve, close to a 6:1 shot, and have 7:1 odds. but you won't win every time you improve. so i don't think one play will make a big difference over the other in the long run.

with more players in the pot is laying you better odds and a call makes more sense. by the way, definitely bet out the turn.