Suited Connectors into a raise

[SacraVia]

Last Night, I had a 60+ BB down turn and my big pairs got cracked by small suited/unsuited connectors getting incredible flops ie nut straight twice, flopped full house, etc. It could have been alot worse but got lucky and got a table with a "success tilt" player and doubled up twice.

The question I have, I can accept the prior suckouts/good hands, is playing suited/unsuited connectors into a raise in the Doyle Brunson mold a positive EV play? Also do you recommend this play as I would think the variance would be pretty severe?

My thinking is that it is positive play because most of the time you are calling a small bet (relative) with the chance to get their entire stack. Your implied odds if you hit are great. However, getting burned multiple times I may not be thinking clearly...

Alos, what other hands "can/do" you play following a raise that signifies a big pocket pair that is a positive play?

[Paul2432]

In his book Ciaffone recommends playing drawing hands like suited connectors or small pocket pairs if two conditions are met. First you have position, and second that the raise constitutes no more than 5-10% of the money in play (the smaller of your stack and your opponents stack). Beware though that suited connectors can be difficult to play after the flop.

BTW, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Brunson advocates playing suited connectors aggressively before the flop. The idea is that you will pick up a lot of pots uncontested (either pre-flop or on the flop) and occasionally make a surprise hand and double through. Sometimes you will get caught, but these hands will be more than offset by the money you won with your bluffs and trap hands.

Paul

[Fistdantilus]

Maybe I am a goofball, but pretty much the ONLY hands I call raises with are suited connectors/suited 1 gappers or pocket pairs. Getting into an unsuited big-card fight without AK seems flat-out wrong to me.

Anyway, to answer your question, I call suited connectors and suited one gappers and my EV is pretty even. With only suited connectors, it's slightly positive. My general rule (and it's a fairly loose one) is to call with suited connectors/suited 1 gappers if the action will be 3 way or more to the flop. I only cold-call if I have the button, otherwise I always wait until someone else has called before joining. With a pccket pair, you can go heads up because you'll know right away on the flop if you'll continue.

In my opinion, the variance isn't that bad. Since most people take TPTK too far in NL, the implied odds are just spectacular. It's hard to offer advice on it when I don't have it completely down myself, but the hardest hands to play are the 4 flush/str8 on the flop. Sadly, I find the best play is to often fold on the flop when a pot bet is made and you are first to act.

I find since it's about even EV for me, might as well play them for image and fun. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Fistdantilus

[SacraVia]

Thanks for the comments.

I was only calling big raises with pairs and folding just about everything which just seems like a waste of great opportunities. I am going to start with the suited connectors, probably not one gappers though, and give it a shot for a few thousand hands. I agree with the post-flop play of 4 to strt/flush... still a confusing play on my side...

I also think that to the layman, showing down 67s taking down the bullets gives you a rather good table image as well. Not that anyone is really looking on PP $25. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[tewall]

The advise in Ciaffone book is excellent. Play the gambling hands when the situation is perfect. Having position helps the play of the hand in future rounds as well as knowing that enough players will see the flop to make it worthwhile.

The Brunson style won't work at all in the typical no fold-em games. Semi-bluffing with suited connectors needs the equity from opponents folding better hands, but if opponents don't fold, you need to show them a better hand.

[SacraVia]

I really need to get the Ciaffone book. Sadly, its out of print currently, so I am going to have to hunt down a copy. Bummer, eh?.

[ QUOTE ]
<snip> second that the raise constitutes no more than 5-10% of the money in play (the smaller of your stack and your opponents stack).

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure that I understand what this means. Is he stating that the 5-10% is the combination of your stack and his stack. So at PP 25, you and villain has 25 apiece. If his raise was to $2.5 up to $5 (5% or 10% of the combined stack), then this is an ideal place to call?

Or did I just completely miss that?

[tewall]

It means just what it says. The smaller of your stack and your opponent's stack, not the combination of the two but the smaller of the two. The "ideal" place to call is when your input is as small as possible. If you can call with less than 5% of your stack (we'll assume the opponent's stack is larger), then you can call no problem. If it costs more than 10% of your stack, you fold. If it's between 5% and 10%, then you have to think.

Regarding the big bet book, try his web site at http://www.diamondcs.net/~thecoach/