2 hands

[jmark]

This is my first post. Here are a couple of hands that I probably should have let go of at the end but couldn't bring myself to. Any advice you have would be appreciated. These tables were pretty typical in my experience, about 3 tight players , 5 loose passive who liked to hit two pair or runner runner flush, etc. and 2 over aggressive who would raise AJ with K72r on the board.
Thanks


Party Poker 0.50/1 (10 handed)
Hero has K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif and is BB

MP1 limps, MP2 limps, MP3 raises, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 3-bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls

Flop(12 SB): 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls

Turn(16 BB): 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls

River(18 BB): K/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls

I figured I could call the flop and turn looking for the flush, but should I have called the river here? I was pretty sure I was beat but hate throwing it away on the end.


Party Poker 0.50/1 (10 handed)
Hero has A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif and is EP2

Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls

Flop(13 SB): J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls

Turn(18 BB): 7/images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO raises, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls

River(26 BB): A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO raises, BB calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls


Should I have bet the river here? I was hoping everyone was betting two-pair or a lower set. Since only a 9T or QT beat me I figured I might as well bet, but considering the number of players still in I guess that was foolish.

Results below:



















Hand 1: MP2 showed K8 and MP3 showed AhQh for top pair

Hand 2: Both MP3 and CO split the pot with the 9T straight. BB had Jh7h

[JDErickson]

Hand 1: I would have folded on the turn. Even with the Flush Draw

Hand 2: I would have definately raised the river. YOur opponents play screams of 2 pair or a set of 7's.

Jim

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I would have folded on the turn. Even with the Flush Draw


[/ QUOTE ]

He's getting 11:1 on a 4.1:1 draw to the second nuts. That's plenty of overlay. Folding is crazy.

[EDIT: Okay, it might not be the second nuts, depending on what club comes. But it's a VERY good hand and would win quite often. Folding is still crazy.]

[taxat]

First, let me preface that this post is my first hand analysis.

Hand 1:

You don't list any reads on any of the specific players. Is MP3 one of the overly aggressive or maybe more importantly are MP1 or MP2? Without knowing more, I might have folded pre-flop. I am hesitant to call a raise with KQo, even for one more bet, unless I am going to close the action. The limp-reraise you had to call is exactly why.

I would fold on the flop. I wouldn't call two cold, especially since you faced a possible reraise from MP2, lowering your pot odds.

I would call the turn since you close the action and are getting enough odds.

I think the turn is the worst card for you. I might have folded because you have to figure at least one of your opponents has an ace, but you are getting 20:1 on your overcall.

Hand 2:

I would have bet the river and probably 3-bet, so you lost less than I would have. BB and MP3 played like they were on draws.

Try to play with MP3 again: Loose-passive and doesn't raise his winning hands.

Welcome to the forum.

[JDErickson]

[ QUOTE ]
He's getting 11:1 on a 4.1:1 draw to the second nuts. That's plenty of overlay. Folding is crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even after the turn card comes a rag?

It seems to me paying 2 bets to possibly get the 2nd best hands is a little risky. Odds might be ok but I still think I'd fold if the turn whiffed me.

This is my worst weak spot right now. Knowing when to chase and when to let it go.

Jim

[jmark]

Thanks for your input. You're right I should have been more specific: in hand 1 MP2 and MP3 were the overly aggressive ones and in hand 2 they were on the button and small blind. They seemed to raise then reraise alot. I played with them for about 4 orbits then the thought hit me that they might be in collusion. I'm sure it was just because I wasn't doing so great, but I decided to go to another table anyway.

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
Even after the turn card comes a rag?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. There are 46 unknown cards in the deck. Thirty-seven don't give him the flush, nine do. 4.1:1 odds.

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me paying 2 bets to possibly get the 2nd best hands is a little risky. Odds might be ok but I still think I'd fold if the turn whiffed me.


[/ QUOTE ]

He's not paying two bets on the turn, he's paying one. And there are 11 in there already. And the best part is that he's closing the action, so there's no chance of a raise behind him.

What you wrote in your post made it seem like you are a little confused about the odds calculations on the turn. Hopefully, this'll clear it up.

McGee