How TERRIBLE is my opponent?

[Magikist]

Party 3/6. I'm in the SB with Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif.

EP limps, MP1 limps, MP2 limps, LP raises, CO cold calls, I 3-bet, EP folds, MP1 folds, EP2 calls, LP calls, CO now caps, we all call.

Flop (about 19 sb): 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
I bet out, MP1 calls, LP calls, CO calls.

Turn (about 11 bb): A /images/graemlins/spade.gif; 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
I bet out, only LP calls.

River (about 13 bb): 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif;5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gif
I bet, LP calls.

He shows A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and takes down the big pot.

I thought he played it like crap and I told him so. I typed "you are a loose passive calling station. your play blows goat balls."

He disagreed with me. What do you guys think?

[Bob T.]

He might be facing a bigger Ace, but the pot is huge, so he couldn't fold. I don't think his play blew goats balls.

[ElSapo]

Well. Not really. Terrible is berating him for his play, regardless of what you think. I hope you're kidding about that bit.

On the flop he has a back-door flush draw and overcards, and he's getting about 20-1 on his call. I'd call also.

Maybe my play also... whatever it was you said.

[Lost Wages]

OK very sneaky way of getting a reply to your previous post that went unnoticed /images/graemlins/grin.gif. "A" for originality.

Lost Wages

[Magikist]

haha, well it's no longer sneaky now that you've brought it up!

[Runner Runner]

"loose passive calling station"

Loose - Let me see he called on the flop with two overcards and a backdoor flush draw getting over 20 to 1. Makes sense to me.

Passive - He raised preflop after a couple of limpers with AJs. He didn't raise you on the turn or river because he could of been against a bigger ace. Makes sense to me.

Calling station - He's getting huge pot odds on every call he makes. What do you want him to do, he sure can't fold. The only time he can make a case for folding is preflop if he knows you or the guy who limp re-raised and trusts one of you to have him dominated, I would not make that fold against players I didn't know. The flop turn and river are automatic calls for him.

I disagree with you as well. He played it fine. If you are going to be a jerk and chastise someone for their play, I am sure you can find much worse plays then this at Party 3-6. Why bother though, do you want your opponents playing better?

[Magikist]

If he thought he was facing a bigger ace, how could he call that flop bet (with pressure from behind from the capping CO!)?

Then, when he hits the ace, which may or may not be a clean out, doesn't he need to raise for information and protect his hand?

[ElSapo]

Funny... I see it now.

You know, I always wonder about these posts when 2+2ers mix things up. B/c you stare at it, you think, "I didn't think the play was bad and he doesn't usually comment on.."

...nice hand; nicer post.

[Bob T.]

I would be happy to get to the showdown for two big bets with this hand. If someone else puts in the bets, I am not going to raise, because I really won't like my hand if it is threebet.

[Magikist]

OK, so my play screams big pocket pair, right? What about CO capping preflop? He could have a bigger ace. The Ace of hearts might not be an out. His outs are dirtier than an old man's depends.

On the turn he gets maybe the perfect card. Just calling down is not despicable?

[Magikist]

Thanks. I've noticed people have been complaining about the SS forum lately, so i'm just trying to do my part...

[MaxPower]

I see, so you want him to raise on the turn, so you can fold. That wouldn't be very smart of him.

He should be worried about his kicker. You are continuing to bet into him when he capped pre-flop and an Ace comes on the board.

The way he played it he loses the least when he is outkicked and wins the most when his hand is best.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought he played it like crap and I told him so. I typed "you are a loose passive calling station. your play blows goat balls."

He disagreed with me. What do you guys think?

[/ QUOTE ]


If you actually typed that, then you are so prone to tilt I'ld say that you have a short and non-illustrious poker career ahead of you.

[The Bear]

Good responses everyone, but for those who now think Magikist is a total jackass, let me set the record straight. He didn't type those comments. In fact, he didn't even play the hand, but he came up with a great way to get some comments on the post.

I was the AJd and I've now been convinced that my play was not awful (and maybe not even wrong). Thanks.

[Magikist]

Haha, thanks Bear.

I don't mind if people think I'm a total jackass, it might even help improve my less-than-illustrious poker career.

[Ulysses]

I agree w/ the others. His play looks good to me.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Good responses everyone, but for those who now think Magikist is a total jackass, let me set the record straight. He didn't type those comments. In fact, he didn't even play the hand, but he came up with a great way to get some comments on the post.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ah...ignore my last post, since I don't really exist...just thought it would be funny to spew inflammatory nonsense, like I was nineteen again...JEEZ...

Peckerhead alert....Peckerhead alert...Peckerhead alert...

[John Biggs]

As other posters have pointed out, it was a mistake on several levels to publicly lambaste your opponent.

I also think you shouldn't have reraised preflop in the blind with QQ. Read HPFAP for some reasons why this is a bad idea. Plus you are inflating a multiway pot so much you are turning it into even more of a lottery than it already is.

Both you and the AJ were in a bad way with that particular flop and that much money in the pot and that many opponents. He got lucky, you didn't.

Don't worry so much about your opponents. Focus on your own play.

Good luck, play well.

[Clarkmeister]

Seems to me he played it perfectly.

[Mike Gallo]

I thought he played it like crap and I told him so. I typed "you are a loose passive calling station. your play blows goat balls." He disagreed with me. What do you guys think?

I think if you can't type anything constructive don't type anything at all.

Go kick your cat, or throw something, dont anger the live ones.

I do not think he made a mistake by calling the flop bet. I believe he got 20:1 for his call.

On the turn or river he should have raised you, however he let you bet the hand for him.

I do not think he played the hand badly. I think you suffer from something other than bad poker playing.

[GuyOnTilt]

...just thought it would be funny to spew inflammatory nonsense, like I was nineteen again.

Hey now, 19 year olds can be decent folk too... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

FWIW, I like the way AJs played his hand on all streets, except I would've definitely raised the river.

GoT

[CrackerZack]

I like his play. If you check the river and he bets, I'd love his play. After the cap you have the perfect opportunity to c/r and probably knock him out, you played it worse than him and possibly cost yourself the pot. but seriously, good argument.

[CrackerZack]

because going runner-runner is about 17-1, he's already getting that.

[CrackerZack]

Raising PF is absolutely necessary. You should go read HPFAP and actually look at the words instead of the pretty pictures. HPFAP gives an example about not raising 4 or 5 limpers from the BB with QQ, not the SB and not 3-betting a LP raiser that should eliminate a number of the limpers. I sure like QQ in a 3 handed pot out of position with some good dead money in there a lot more than it in an 8 handed pot, out of position with terrible position.

The real mistake here is not C/R the flop. Absolute must.

Wow, i re-read my few posts, and I'm an a$$hole today. Good stuff.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought he played it like crap and I told him so. I typed "you are a loose passive calling station. your play blows goat balls."


[/ QUOTE ]

you want him to play better? guys who type this type of stuff have a bit to learn about where the profit comes from in the game. figure it out.

btw...since the other caller folded the turn, making it HU, id probably call just so i dont lose you on the turn. though i would raise the river.

b

[RydenStoompala]

I looked up "blowing goat balls" in one of my books and it specifically refers to folding aces pre-flop. This would have been more of a "thanks for not sucking another big bet out of me 'cuz you owned my ass" or something like that.

[Ed Miller]

You played fine. QQ, on the other hand, played his lot quite poorly. See if you can figure out what he should have done differently.

[CrackerZack]

Living in vegas turned you into David?

sorry if i spoiled your quiz, if I didn't, we need to have an indepth discussion about this hand.

[Ed Miller]

sorry if i spoiled your quiz, if I didn't, we need to have an indepth discussion about this hand.

I'm not sure I would have checkraised the flop, but betting out on the flop and betting out on the turn is almost definitely wrong.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I would have checkraised the flop, but betting out on the flop and betting out on the turn is almost definitely wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this due to your belief that Hero is likely behind to a higher pocket pair already, and/or may fall further behind on this coordinated board if a scare cards falls on the turn with all of these players, since a flop bet will not cause anyone with a draw to fold?

I hope that you'll elaborate for the unwashed masses (some of you being less washed than others /images/graemlins/grin.gif)

[John Biggs]

I don't happen to agree with anything you say, but thank you for your insulting tone. You are almost as bad as I am.

I will point out that not reraising preflop would help keep the pot small, and thus make a check-raise on the flop a lot more effective. By pumping it up preflop you make the flop check-raise or raise a much less effective tool, especially in a game that's loose to begin with.

As for the example in HPFAP, it's meant to illustrate a general principle; an intelligent reader should be able to extrapolate accordingly. Maybe YOU should stop looking at the pretty pictures so much!

Live in peace--

[Ed Miller]

The pot is huge. Your hand is very vulnerable. You should be desperate to protect it. Betting out on the flop and then again on the turn does basically squat to protect your hand.

QQ should develop a plan from the flop on that will actually force some people to fold. Checkraising the flop is a start, but even two bets cold on the flop may not protect your hand in this huge pot. You may have to orchestrate a turn checkraise. For more discussion of playing in these conditions, reread the Loose Games section of HPFAP.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought he played it like crap

[/ QUOTE ]

You are 100% correct. He should have raised the turn or river. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Why the hell would you want your opponents to play better?

You should be thanking him not chastising him.

Looks like you have some tilt issues. Check this out: Enjoy a Bad Beat (http://www.riveredagain.com/articles.htm#Tall_Enjoy_a_Bad_Beat). However, that beat wasn't bad.

Peace,
JT

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Living in vegas turned you into David?

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously laughed out loud as you beat me to the punch. Sorry, kong, but that's good stuff.

Nice one,
JT

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
In fact, he didn't even play the hand, but he came up with a great way to get some comments on the post.

[/ QUOTE ]

So this is a hoax? The comments were just a ploy to get responses? Now that's a jackass.

If your not getting many responses to the overwhelming number of posts here, try responding to posts, over and over. Show yourself a little, get corrected or praised. Then as you build a showing here, you'll see your responses start to grow.

EDIT: Or stop wasting everyone's time.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[chesspain]

Major,

So I was on the right track, in so far as betting out on the flop will do nothing but cost you more money up front and possibly just help to build a pot to give all of the draws even better odds to chase. In addition, in the unlikely event it's checked around, you'll see even more clearly on the turn if it's worth checkraising or even calling any bets.

Out of curiousity, if you check the flop, and it's bet and raised, do you simply muck rather than coldcall or 3-bet?

[Mike28a]

Tilt.

[CrackerZack]

I can't see any other way to play this hand given the pre-flop action and properly protect as we both know that is absolutely required with your hand and this flop. If you bet the flop and the capper raises, you can 3-bet, but you've basically accomplished the same thing, only made the pot bigger so they're getting even better odds to call their 2 cold. If he doesn't raise, C/R the turn if its a blank isn't guaranteed, because you aren't certain you'll even get a bet. Overcards will rarely bet knowing someone will call in a pot this huge so they'll be happy to take their freecard you can't afford to give. If he does raise, and bets the turn, I'm not sure I feels so good about my hand anymore.

I'm certainly interested in your plan for protecting your hand here and completely agree bet, bet is not it.

[CrackerZack]

You're welcome. Yesterday was my a$$hole day as I mentioned in another post from yesterday. Ok, past that...

I understand your point, but it just doesn't apply here. You couldn't keep this pot small unless you had a gun and robbed it. If you want to disagree, fine, but look at the numbers. Ok, you call, BB comes along and limpers call, the pot is 7 BBs. 7 BBs! Without anymore action the rest of the hand this is an avg pot size for what is usually a decent table. And we know there will be more action. Everyone is already getting 15-1 (assuming someone bet if they are calling) on their flop calls making almost anything playable. So you have 7 BBs PF and 7 opponents. Ok, you 3-bet you lose the BB and first 2 limpers, for consistency we'll say it wasn't capped since this wouldn't be a possibility if you called. Now you have a 1.5 BB dead from blinds and limpers, and 4 opponents for 3 bets. The pot is now 7.5 BBs with only 4 opponents. With the cap its 9.5 BBs, but still only 4 opponents. The number of opponents is utterly crucial. You cannot keep this pot small, hell, this pot is certainly decent enough the minute there was a raise and a cold-call. You have to do everything to win this pot ASAP which means you have to 3-bet.

I'll listen to the other side if you want to take it though. Let's discuss.

[The Bear]

Joe,

I'm usually with you, but I have to respectfully disagree this time. It's a well-known fact that new posters don't get enough respect on this forum. How are new players supposed to improve their game if they can't get their posts responded to? This hand ended up generating some discussion, but since Magikist only had 75 posts, nobody gave it the time of day until he made it controversial. Asking novice players to inflate their count by constantly posting replies is simply not right. They might lack the knowledge to answer questions or, when they do have some idea, they might give out incorrect advice to other players (which is a serious danger on forums like these).

I understand that more experienced posters have more interesting things to say and can generate more fruitful discussion, but that does not mean that less experienced players should have to reach some minimal level of posting notoriety to be taken seriously.

Oh, and I hope this didn't sound like I was calling Magikist a new or inexperienced player...he is not.

Later.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Asking novice players to inflate their count by constantly posting replies is simply not right. They might lack the knowledge to answer questions or, when they do have some idea, they might give out incorrect advice to other players (which is a serious danger on forums like these).

[/ QUOTE ]

No No No No!

Look, reply reply reply. There are enough good posters here that'll catch your 'bad advice'. In fact I've learned more from being 'corrected' than posting hands. It's all part of the process and once you do this over-and-over, you'll learn more, get commended for your responses and get more responses to your posts.

[ QUOTE ]
but that does not mean that less experienced players should have to reach some minimal level of posting notoriety to be taken seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

So they should post a f-king hoax?

Later is right,
JT

[ElSapo]

So they should post a f-king hoax?

My understanding was that it wasn't a complete hoax, only a hand he had played posted from the other side. He actually held AJ and his opponent held QQ.

But if this isn't right, someone please correct me...

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
But if this isn't right, someone please correct me...

[/ QUOTE ]

They lied about the 'chat box' berrating of the other player to get action on the post.

Jacka$$es.

Peace, Sap,
JT

[Magikist]

This is EXCELLENT advice. I also thought QQ played it incorrectly, but it's tough spot. Orchestrating a turn checkraise is easier said than done.

Thanks for the contribution, Kong.

[Magikist]

Joe,

From my experience, you seem to be a pretty mellow poster, so I'm really surprised you've gotten so worked up over this that you're actually calling me a Jacka$$.

That is 100% inappropriate and uncalled for.

Granted, fabricating the "chat box berrating" may also have been inappropriate. However, it wasn't central to the post, and actually wasn't meant to generate "action" for the post. The "action" was clearly meant to be generated by the subject line. The "blowing goat balls" was meant to be a humorous lampooning of those tilting players who always claim to be bad beat. Obviously, I haven't yet developed the kind of reputation on this forum for me to have gotten away with it.

As El Sapo has pointed out, the term "hoax" is also inappropriate. It's a hand that truly happened, and I believed both the play of both hands was questionable, and so that's why I posted it. I'm glad it created some good threads of discussion.

However, I acknowledge that my action could be labeled deceptive. I apologize to you, Joe, since I seem to have offended you, and I apologize to anyone else who may now question the integrity of my posts.

I stand by my decision to post it the way I did, though. The SAME EXACT hand was posted about an hour before this one, and it got literally 11 views in that time. If I didn't re-post it a more original, controversial, interesting, deceptive (take your pick) manner, a fruitful discusion would have never developed.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
From my experience, you seem to be a pretty mellow poster, so I'm really surprised you've gotten so worked up over this that you're actually calling me a Jacka$$.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bailey's in your coffee every morning will do that to you.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
However, I acknowledge that my action could be labeled deceptive. I apologize to you, Joe, since I seem to have offended you, and I apologize to anyone else who may now question the integrity of my posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apology excepted.

[ QUOTE ]
The SAME EXACT hand was posted about an hour before this one, and it got literally 11 views in that time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Impatient are we? 1 hour is nothing, not everyone is on this forum all day, like me. Someone will get at it, trust me.

Also, if a top poster has responded already, sometime I don't feel the need to reply. I'd just be saying the same thing usually. I'm sure others feel the same way.

I recommend that you don't add such things to get responses, it's just not cool. I've put you and Bear on probation for now. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Reply to posts here, not matter how unconfindent you feel about your answer. In fact, don't even look at the other responses, jump on a new post and say the first thing that comes to your head.

Ask anyone on how many times JTG, Ulysses, Homer, Cracker, vehn, Clark, Dynasty, MG, Barry, MaxPower, nottom, bernie, rkiray, slavic, and just now, riggelto in my "didn't c/r post" and many others have pounded me for responding stupidly. Trust me it's the way I've become a better and better player.

Reply, post and do it again, no shame, no ego, full humility.

Peace,
JT

[Clarkmeister]

"However, it wasn't central to the post, and actually wasn't meant to generate "action" for the post."

"If I didn't re-post it a more original, controversial, interesting, deceptive (take your pick) manner, a fruitful discusion would have never developed."

You contradict yourself, and you *do* look like an a-hole. I mean, you even lied in your explanation. Look at all the people who responded specifically to help you regarding your "tilt problem". You owe them ALL an apology for wasting their freaking time.

Sorry but what you did was incredibly selfish and needs to be called out.

[ElSapo]

not everyone is on this forum all day, like me.

Whew... so it's not just me /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Magikist]

I can see why you might think I contradict myself, so I'll clarify.

[ QUOTE ]
"If I didn't re-post it a more original, controversial, interesting, deceptive (take your pick) manner, a fruitful discusion would have never developed."


[/ QUOTE ]

In this sentence I'm refering to how I changed the perspective of the hand from the way it was originally posted, NOT the "chat box berrating." I misrepresented which hand the Hero had and focused the discussion on the play of Hero's OPPONENT, rather than Hero himself. This is unique because 99% of posters want to know what they did wrong, not their opponent.

I have seen this kind of misrepresentation and altered perspective narratives many times on this forum. I hope it's not on this premise that I'm being labeled an a-hole.

So there's no contradiction and no "lies." You say I lied? OK, but poker is a game of lies and I'd be surprised if no one has ever lied on this forum. Clearly, there was no malicious intent involved in claiming that I told my opponent his play "blew goat balls," but rather humor.

I enjoy contributing to 2+2 and pride myself in providing positive contributions. I stand by my decision to post this hand the way I did. There's a popular thread in the News, Views, Gossip forum questioning "what's wrong with the SS forum." There's no doubt in my mind that this thread has developed into a constructive poker discussion (obviously, aside from pointing out that I'm an a-hole), and if there's any problem in the SS forum it's not me.

In any event, this won't be the first or last time someone has looked like an a-hole on 2+2. In fact, Clarkmeister, you've looked like an a-hole on many occasions. Your cricism can be caustic, out-of-line, and completely inappropriate. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Selfish? Not quite. My interest in this post was on behalf of a friend and on behalf on the forum as a whole.

As for those people who responded "specifically to help [me] regarding [my] tilt problem," most of them were insulting and not constructive. I owe them no apology for their own rudeness.

While posts are primarily specific, people perform the dual task of posting for the forum at large, since this is a community. Suggestions on how not to tilt are not wasted, since it's a topic relevant to many of us.

[Mike Gallo]

In fact, Clarkmeister, you've looked like an a-hole on many occasions. Your cricism can be caustic, out-of-line, and completely inappropriate. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

You have obviously confused Clarkmeister with Dynasty. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

I think Clarkmeister tends to sugar coats his critism at times. I do not recall one insulting post he has made.

Clarkmeister has never given anything other than solid poker advice.

I think you should tone it down a notch and move on.

[Magikist]

MG,

Believe it or not, I've been reading these forums long enough to not confuse Clarkmeister with Dynasty.

I didn't think the tone of my defense was too shrill. But you are right, time to move on.

[Clarkmeister]

"Your cricism can be caustic, out-of-line, and completely inappropriate."

Examples bucko.

[Mike Gallo]

Magic,

Its ok, you once made a joke at my expense my posting to one of my responses

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=326279&page=&view=&sb =5&o=&vc=1

I should have known then you would offer little to these forums.

[Nottom]

I actually figured the chat was real, but was his opponent calling him a braindead fish.

So it was all completely fabricated? <shrug>

[Magikist]

How about your post in this thread a couple of hours ago? One of many, bucko.

[Magikist]

wow - Nasty!

If I knew how insecure you are and how easily your feelings get hurt, I'd never have posted it.

[Clarkmeister]

Give me a break. You wasted the time of several people who were trying to help you out. I'm sure they are thrilled that you lied to them for the purpose of generating responses to your thread. The fact is that you DO look like an A-hole. And trying to pick a fight with long-time respected posters makes you look stupid on top of it.

Besides....with 3100+ posts to choose from, surely you can do better than that. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually figured the chat was real, but was his opponent calling him a braindead fish.

So it was all completely fabricated? <shrug>

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the 'chat' was fabricated to create action on the post.

Am I the only one to read this 'hand'?

I'm hoping that others will not longer respond to Mag and Bear's posts. That'll help them in the long run.

Peace,
JT

[Magikist]

[ QUOTE ]
You wasted the time of several people who were trying to help you out

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt many people posted "to help me out," and I doubt many feel cheated. As I said before, this is a community forum where your contributions benefit the community as well as the individual. Their efforts are never wasted.

I've apologized before to those people whose panties got a little ruffled over this.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure they are thrilled that you lied to them for the purpose of generating responses to your thread

[/ QUOTE ]

I've also addressed this before quite lucidly, and it's not rocket science to understand. The fabricated part of the post, the now notorious "goat balls" quote, was intended only as supplemental humor. I didn't consider the fact that people would respond with advice on how not to tilt.

[ QUOTE ]
The fact is that you DO look like an A-hole

[/ QUOTE ]

Thus far, only you and Joe Tall have expressed this opinion.

[ QUOTE ]
And trying to pick a fight with long-time respected posters makes you look stupid on top of it

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm entitled to defend myself. Since when is disagreement picking a fight? I didn't start throwing the word a-hole around.

Repeatedly misunderstanding everything in this discussion makes you look stupid.

[Magikist]

How is this a good solution?

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Repeatedly misunderstanding everything in this discussion makes you look stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

[Clarkmeister]

Disagreement with your spin on things is hardly "misunderstanding everything in the discussion". Quite the contrary.

[CrackerZack]

And when I do, i'm usually in a bad mood.

[Magikist]

Touche

[John Biggs]

You make a good argument, but I still prefer my approach--however I can't prove it. If I had the time I would try running some simulations to see which way produces better EV, but it takes forever to set up Turbo to do them.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
How is this a good solution?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

[Homer]

I'm hoping that others will not longer respond to Mag and Bear's posts.

Joe, I just skimmed this thread, but what exactly did the Bear do wrong? I really like his posts and wish he would come around more often, FWIW.

-- Homer

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I just skimmed this thread, but what exactly did the Bear do wrong? I really like his posts and wish he would come around more often, FWIW.


[/ QUOTE ]

He's in on the hoax.

Peace,
JT

[Homer]

What hoax? Posting that he was one player when in actuality he was another? If so, I see nothing wrong that. Many posters have done that in the past, including the big wigs. Perhaps you are referring to the fact that Magikist said that he berated the other player's play. I'm pretty sure that was done tounge in cheek, since in fact it turned out that he was the other player. Regardless, I don't understand why this thread blew up as it did.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you are referring to the fact that Magikist said that he berated the other player's play. I'm pretty sure that was done tounge in cheek, since in fact it turned out that he was the other player. Regardless, I don't understand why this thread blew up as it did.


[/ QUOTE ]

They added the 'chat slam' to get action on the post. It was fiticious.

Peace,
JT

[joedot]

Actually the profit in these games come from players just like the poster. You know, the ones that think they are poker gods, and bet the [censored] out of their one pair hands the whole way, and bitch and moan when they lose. Mr Poker God's opponent induced this guy to keep betting his queens the whole way, drawing to 2 outs after the turn. Perfect play. If he raises the turn, the QQ folds, and he gets reraised by a better ace or a set. To the original poster, you aint gods gift to cards. Get over it.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
What hoax?...Perhaps you are referring to the fact that Magikist said that he berated the other player's play. I'm pretty sure that was done tounge in cheek, since in fact it turned out that he was the other player. Regardless, I don't understand why this thread blew up as it did.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a former neighbor who would initiate conversations with me like:

"Did you know that Mary [wife] broke her leg?"
"Really? When did that happen?"
"Last night; we were having sex in the [outdoor kids' plastic] playhouse."
"No Way!"
"Yeah, really"
"That's unbelievable!"
"Nah, I'm only kidding ya"

As you can imagine, he was also pretty much a peckerhead, although it was funny to see him on his bicycle having to commute the fifteen miles roundtrip to work each day for six months after he lost his license for DWI. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ed Miller]

So I was on the right track, in so far as betting out on the flop will do nothing but cost you more money up front and possibly just help to build a pot to give all of the draws even better odds to chase.

I wouldn't say it this way. Betting out doesn't "cost you more money up front" or "help to build a pot to give draws better odds to chase." Betting out fails to protect your hand and induce people to fold. That's why it's bad.

In fact, I don't think betting the flop is necessarily wrong. I do think that betting the flop and then betting again on the turn is wrong. He probably should have gone for a checkraise on the turn even after betting the flop.

All you should care about at this point is getting people to fold. If your play fails to get people to fold, then your play is poor. The best line of play for QQ is the one that forces the most people to be out by the time the river card comes.

As it turns out, there's no way QQ could have won this hand. AJ will basically always be seeing the turn card, and it was the turn card that beat him.

Out of curiousity, if you check the flop, and it's bet and raised, do you simply muck rather than coldcall or 3-bet?

Mucking an overpair for two bets on the flop in a huge pot is absurd. DO NOT MAKE BIG LAYDOWNS IN HUGE POTS! This is the #1 rule of limit poker. Breaking this rule is the most costly mistake you can possibly make at limit poker. If you routinely break it (and are commonly involved in huge pots) you will be broke faster than the calling station that calls every hand to the river.

[Ed Miller]

Meh.. people don't seem to learn when you just tell them the answer every time. I was just hoping that I could get some wheels turning in someone's head for once... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
people don't seem to learn when you just tell them the answer every time. I was just hoping that I could get some wheels turning in someone's head for once

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't get me and Zack wrong, you question is perfect and we were just bustin' on you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I liked the question and it did make me think about it.

Just one more thing...

[ QUOTE ]
Meh..

[/ QUOTE ]

Now who are you trying to be?? Vehn? /images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Peace,
JT

[Ed Miller]

Now who are you trying to be?? Vehn?

I'm thinking of a finger...

[Vehn]

/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[Joe Tall]