Dealing with raises

[Griffin]

Trying to improve my game, especially how I handle raises to me, so here are some hands for critique. If you can comment, thanks!

Pacific 1/2 table. Only been in for one orbit, so no real reads on anyone. This is the first hand I've played since sitting down, other than my initial post, so if they're reading me some may read me as tight since a lot of the table is loose. I've played with the opponent in this hand, the CO, before and don't have any negative notes on him, so he's at least a decent player.

Hand 1:
I'm EP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif

UTG limps, I raise, CO cold-calls, button cold-calls, SB, BB, and UTG call. Six to the flop.

Flop(11.5 SBs): 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Checked to CO who bets, BB calls, I call.
Is a draw to a Queen high flush worth a call here?

Turn(7 BBs): T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB checks, I bet, CO raises, BB folds, I fold.

Should I have just check-called it down when I made my Queen-high flush? I bet out to see how well he liked his hand. His immediate raise made me believe he had the nuts. Too weak-tight?

Hand 2:
Same table, several orbits later. I have some reads now on some players. In this hand, SB is a calling station, BB is decent, UTG and EP1 have good starting hand requirements, MP2 has loose raising standards.

I'm CO with A/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif

UTG limps, EP1 limps, EP2 limps, MP1 limps, MP2 raises, fold to me.

I consider the fact that 4 players already have a bet in pre-raise, and of the button and blinds, at least one more will call.

I cold-call to chase the flush. Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, everyone else calls. Sevent to the flop.

Flop(14 SBs): 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Checked to MP2 who bets. Although I have runner-runner possibilities, I fold.

Is a cold-call OK here given the number of players that will be in the pot? Do you think I should have chased my runner-runners to the turn?

Hand 3:
Same table, but this was actually my first hand at this table. I've watched one hand while waiting for the BB. In the hand I watched, my opponent in the hand below played A5o from MP.

I'm BB and have A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG folds, EP1 (A5o guy) limps, MP limps, SB completes, I check. Four to the flop.

Flop(4 SBs): A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, I bet, EP1 raises, MP folds, SB folds, I 3-bet, EP1 caps, I call.

Turn(5.5 BBs): K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I check, EP1 checks.

River(5.5 BBs): 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet, EP1 folds.

Because I had just seen him play A5o, his flop cap made me think he has two pair (A8, A4) or maybe a set. For some reason I didn't consider the flush draw. Was his flop cap the correct play HU with a flush draw? Should I have bet-folded, bet-called, or bet-raised the turn (assuming he raises my turn bet)?

Hand 4:
This one is from Party. No read on any players.
Party Poker 2/4 (10 handed)
Griffin has K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif and is MP1

Griffin raises, MP2 3-bets, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, Griffin caps, MP2 calls, SB calls, BB calls

Flop(17 SB): 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB checks, BB checks, Griffin bets, MP2 raises, SB folds, BB calls, Griffin 3-bets, MP2 caps, BB calls, Griffin calls

Turn(14 1/2 BB): 9/images/graemlins/club.gif

BB checks, Griffin checks, MP2 checks

River(14 1/2 BB): A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB checks, Griffin checks, MP2 checks

When MP2 caps the flop, after I capped pre-flop, I was thinking straight, set, or AA, so I check the turn. When the Ace fell on the river, I got scared again and checked. How should I have played differently?

Thanks everyone!

[Brian]

Hi Griffin,

Hand #1: Did you mispost the suits? You have A /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif and the Flop is 3 Diamonds. I guess I can assume you have A /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I am not in this situation very often and I actually have no idea whether or not it is worth drawing to. I think probably your best option is to bet out and see how much the others like their hands, and if you are raised then you can probably just fold it.

Being that you check-called the Flop, I would probably check-call the Turn and River. You aren't worried about giving free cards, and the CO seems willing to bet your hand for you.

Hand #2: I still don't like the cold-call, even with many players in already. It still could be re-raised behind you, and Axs is just not a very good hand period if there is little chance of your Ace being good if you hit.

The Flop call is a difficult one mainly because of the fact that someone might check-raise. You are getting such good pot odds though that this is probably worth a call with a backdoor wheel and backdoor nut Flush draw. Your Ace may be good if you hit, too.

Hand #3: I would probably raise this pre-Flop. 1 more limper, and I'd be more inclined to check, but your raise won't make the pot so large that your opponents can chase to the River with bottom pair correctly. I think that you played the rest of the hand correctly. I would have 3-bet also, but when he capped, I would give him credit for having sometihng and go into check-call mode. If he is overplaying a weak Ace, then the bet will go into the pot on the Turn if you check or not. When he checks through, it looks like he was gambling with a Flush draw, but I'd bet the River since it didn't hit.

Hand #4: That's a pretty ugly Flop for KK against a pre-Flop re-raiser, especially with 2 people dragged along. I'm definitely going to at least the River with the gutshot, and probably to a showdown if things don't look too bad. I think you played the hand fine.

-Brian

[TheRake]

Griffin,

Hand 1
I assume you had A /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif?

I call the turn riase and check call the river. There are many hands CO could be raising here including a bluff. I think I show this one down.

Hand 2

Good fold....You are 23:1 dog to go runner runner flush. You don't have odds to draw. With one over card weak kicker this is an easy fold.

Hand 3
I think this is a raise PF from the BB. Flop played well. I think after EP1 caps the flop I go into check call mode. Looks like he way overplayed his flush draw. River bet is good, but no chance of a call.

Hand 4
Without any player reads this is a tough one. Might not be correct, but I can't see myself playing any differently. I make a crying call on the river if it is bet. I see MP2 holding QQ and ramming and jamming his overpair and OESD. I have no idea why BB is still around. Probly something ridiculous like a pair of J's /images/graemlins/smirk.gif Hope you won this pot.

TheRake

[TheRake]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2

Good fold....You are 23:1 dog to go runner runner flush. You don't have odds to draw. With one over card weak kicker this is an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I missed the gutshot draw /images/graemlins/blush.gif. Your pot odds are good if you choose to continue.

TheRake

[Griffin]

Thanks for the replies, and sorry for the mispost. Yes, I did have Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif in Hand 1.

Hand 1: I wish I had just called it down. I probably would have lost, but still.....

Hand 2: I only played this for the flush draw and when it didn't hit on the flop, I folded. I normally don't cold-call unless I have a pair, but with the limpers I thought I'd try it here. I'll avoid it next time...

Hands 3 and 4:
In Hand 4 the guy showed K8s. The flop wasn't his suit, so he was pumping his OESD. My opponents in 3 and 4 seemed overly aggressive with their draws, but maybe I'm just not aggressive enough when I have a draw.

Has someone changed the guideline about "checking when you have outs and betting when you don't", and not told me? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Joe Tall]

Brian has giving you excellent responses to your post and I 2nd all he has said.

Hand#2 you have to fold preflop.

Hand#3:
You ran into the classic cap-the-flush-draw&take the free card. It is written in HPFAP that you should bet out on the turn for more information here and for value that your top pair is still good when the flush draw doesn't not make it.

Hand#4:

I can't blame you for laying off but QQ is likely jam on this flop.

Peace,
JT

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #3: I would probably raise this pre-Flop. 1 more limper, and I'd be more inclined to check, but your raise won't make the pot so large that your opponents can chase to the River with bottom pair correctly. I think that you played the rest of the hand correctly. I would have 3-bet also, but when he capped, I would give him credit for having sometihng and go into check-call mode. If he is overplaying a weak Ace, then the bet will go into the pot on the Turn if you check or not. When he checks through, it looks like he was gambling with a Flush draw, but I'd bet the River since it didn't hit.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like the river bet. What's he gonna call with (that our man beats) that he didn't bet on the turn?

McGee

[Brian]

Hi Aces,

Just because it looks and smells like a Flush draw does not mean that it is a Flush draw. I agree with you 100% that if he is nearly certain that his opponent was on a Flush draw that there is no value in betting the River. However, I do not think that a Flush draw is the only hand he could have. Why is that? Because I do not try to put players who play completely illogically on hands. Maybe he has a weak Ace and got scared on the Turn. Maybe he was testing the waters with a pocket pair. Maybe he has a Flush draw and caught enough on the Turn or River to hang himself (a King or 5), or maybe it was a Flush draw with a pair to begin with.

If there is one thing I have learned about low limit hold'em, it is to bet the River, and worry about what hands he would call with later. You will get called by anything and everything under the sun, whether it makes sense to us or not.

-Brian

[Brian]

Hi again Aces,

I was just reading through some posts on the Mid-High Stakes Forum and I came across this post by Clarkmeister that excellently demonstrates my point:

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. I also think that the concept of "worse hands can't call" sounds great in theory, but in practice it has almost no value. Worse hands can, and do, call all the time. What worse hands can call? I like to ley me opponents decide because they consistantly come up with all sorts of creative answers to the question.

I like Tommy's saying: "Its my job to give them rope, what they do with it is their business."

[/ QUOTE ]

-Brian