missing value bet(s)?

[Sleepy Weasel]

Party Poker 1/2 (10 handed)
Hero has A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif and is MP1

UTG limps, EP1 limps, Hero raises, MP2 calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, EP1 calls

Flop(12 SB): 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, EP1 raises, Hero calls, MP2 folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls

Turn(10 BB): T/images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, UTG bets, EP1 raises, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls

River(16 BB): 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG bets, EP1 raises, Hero calls, UTG calls

The thought I had while I was reviewing this hand was, can I raise the turn here for value? It never occured to me that maybe I could 3 bet for value in a situation like this, but I've got, what? 15 outs (with 10 of them to the nuts)? What do you think?

Also, please blast me for not raising the river as I already have one head shaped hole in the wall over this, and I'd rather not make another one. Major brain fade, I have no idea what I was doing.

[tj00]

I don't think you can raise the turn for value here. If someone has a set that kills 2 of you flush outs, and you will have to split the pot with any jack.

I'm not sure just calling on the river was that bad. You don't have the nuts. If EP1 is reasonable he has a jack here. If UTG does not have a jack he might call one more bet, but not 2.

[Rico Suave]

Hey Weasel:

[ QUOTE ]
can I raise the turn here for value?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably, but I think I would just play it like you. If you hit you want both BB and UTG to be in to pay you off, and I think I would smooth call here and hope the BB sticks around.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, please blast me for not raising the river

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure this mistake is blastworthy, but I would have raised. The only hand that beats you is KJ, and if you look at the flop action, KJ does not seem like a reasonable holding for UTG or EP1. If UTG held KJ, would he bet out on the flop with only a gutshot? And then wouldn't he 3 bet the turn with the nuts? If EP1 held KJ, would he really raise a flop bettor immediately to his right to shut everyone out with only a gut shot. Now maybe if either of these guys have KJ /images/graemlins/club.gif it might make a little more sense, but you hold the J /images/graemlins/club.gif. In short, I do not think either holds KJ and so you can safely raise and, IMO expect to split at worst. (btw, I am assuming that UTG and EP1 are semi reasonable, if not, you can ignore all of my analysis).

Well.....maybe slightly blastworthy. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Nice hand

--Rico