At the time I thought I played it well, now I'm not so sure...

[Homer]

Party 2/4, normal type game, actually have some reads today because I'm paying attention.

Anyhoo, EP limps, CO limps, I complete with 44, BB raises and we all call. BB plays like me, pretty tight-aggressive, leaning a little towards weak-tight. The other two are loose-passive, probably a little looser than a typical 2/4 player.

Flop - 8d 5d 4s

Checked around.

Turn - Ah

I check, BB bets, CO calls, I checkraise, only BB calls.

River - Ks

I bet, BB calls.

-- Homer

[Joe Tall]

Flush draw on the flop, bet it. Loose Lower limit game, bet it. You have a set, bet it. Straight draw ont he flop, bet it.

I can't think of anymore reasons, other than that when the Ace hits the turn, I like the check-raise.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Homer]

Flush draw on the flop, bet it. Loose Lower limit game, bet it. You have a set, bet it. Straight draw ont he flop, bet it.

This is one of my concerns. Am I better off check-raising, trapping the field for multiple bets, or should I bet and hope BB raises, confronting the field with two bets cold? I think with all those draws out there I should have tried to use BB as my partner to knock people out. Additionally, by checking, I'm risking a free card, as happened in this case.

I can't think of anymore reasons, other than that when the Ace hits the turn, I like the check-raise.

At the time, I thought I was a genius for checking it twice. Now, I'm not so sure. Would I have been better off betting and hoping for BB to raise with his big Ace so that I could three-bet, or is check-raising better, so I can get some bets out of the other players who are likely drawing thin? When you answer this, assume there is no chance BB would have checked it through on the turn.

-- Homer

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Would I have been better off betting and hoping for BB to raise with his big Ace so that I could three-bet, or is check-raising better, so I can get some bets out of the other players who are likely drawing thin? When you answer this, assume there is no chance BB would have checked it through on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I pretty much gave up slow playing except for extreme situations. I play fast now and I think it's helped me level off my play so that I can get back to c/r-ing when appropriate.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Dylan Wade]

I'm surprised you had the balls to check to BB on the turn as well. Though, I think it's a very good play, since his hand screams overcards on the flop.

However, I still think betting the flop is better. There's a small chance you'll be called, but since BB is tight/agressive I think he'd surely raise you which would almost certainly get rid of two players. However, one could also argue that you would like those flush draws to stay in the game. Fact is, it's more likely for you to fill up than for them to flush, so you're getting the best of it if they stay to the river. So, checking could be good for that reason. Unfortunately, BB checked through, which is an unexpected play from an agressive player who raised pf

[rharless]

Wouldn't you be feeling great about the hand if you had bet the flop AND c/r'ed the turn?

Bet the flop. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bernie]

no one with a decent draw is leaving the flop for 2 bets cold. so the idea of c/r to limit the field isnt a good one. youll only knock out hands that may be drawing dead or slim. which may leave anyways for 1 bet.

c/r hoping the BB bets out will build a huge pot putting some players in position to make a mistake by folding when they should call. (unless they know what you have) but theyll call anyways.

your bet on the flop would represent a wide range of hands. both made and drawing. which may encourage the BB to raise. which would give you an idea if anyone may be drawing by them coldcalling. to which you then get to 3 bet. which could also still be many hands you are representing. including draws.

you also have a better drawing hand than a flush for the redraw if the turn makes someone else' hand. but you also dont mind the flush drawing to 7 outs if the turn misses them. they could hit and still lose should the flush pair the board. by then, the pot is big so theyll call with their flush paying you off the whole way.

lets say you bet out, BB raises, you 3 bet, he calls (if he plays an overpair this weak). he may still put you on a draw and raise you on the turn. or, as rharless suggested, c/r the turn. (though if he has AK and doesnt hit, he will possibly check it through. turn card and player knowledge helps dictate your course of action obviously)

this is one reason i love sets. especially against a typical player that wont put you on it right away with this type of board if your betting your other hands. you have a strong made hand + a strong drawing hand. i dont care about protecting the pot since i have a great redraw. i want chips flying into the center. (unless it dawns on me that someone may have an overset. but many dont come alive 'til the turn. but again, player knowledge helps)

but you already know this stuff. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

b

btw...there are rare times i will take a set to the turn before acting. but it is rare and usually not in a multiway pot. usually if it's HU will i consider it. along with other factors.

[Bob T.]

I would probably have bet the flop. Your opponents raise might have been on big cards, and he might check this one through, as he did. The biggest pots are built, when there is a lot of action preflop, and on the flop. When you get a coordinated board like this, you could get free card raises behind you, as well as your opponents might suspect that you are on a draw, and raise you with single pair hands. Then you have can three bet, or try and checkraise the turn, depending on where the bet came from, and how you want to proceed.

If you bet the flop and some players call, and then lead again on the turn, you might get to three bet the turn, if someone raises on the ace that he just caught.

I think after the flop got checked through, going for the second checkraise was the right play.