The losing streak continues... Some more hands

[Brian]

Hi guys,

Down another bundle of BB's today (for those who didn't see my post on Friday, I was down around 125 BB's). I am beginning to question whether or not I can actually beat 5/10, because after around 13,000 hands at 5/10, I am an overall loser. Certainly losing streaks don't last that long. I was making around 1.5 bb/table/hour (I play 4 tables) at 3/6 after around 30,000 hands, and the 5/10 players are only slightly better than the 3/6 players. Maybe I just had a really good run at 3/6. Anyways, here are some more hands for critique from today (I'll just do 2 for now so that I don't bore everyone):

Hand #1: I am dealt Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the SB. UTG, a terrible calling station, limps, and so does EP, a relative unknown. MP poster checks, and it's folded to me. I raise, the BB folds, UTG folds, and the other 2 call. 3 to the Flop for 8sb.

Flop: 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I check, and it's checked around. 3 to the Turn for 8sb (4bb).

Turn: Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I bet, EP calls, MP raises, I fold. If we were heads up, I probably would have called, but I figured I'd let EP "keep him honest". I was pretty baffled by his raise here, because he checked through on the Flop. The Queen or Spade must've hit him in some way, but, because he was new to the table, I decided to let him have it. Most players would not raise a Flush draw on the Turn here, or raise with a Queen without a good kicker. At least, that was my reasoning at the time.

Hand #2: Dealt K /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif in MP. This is a hand from the beginning of the session, so at the time I was new to the table. UTG and EP limp, I raise, everyone else folds, both of them call. 3 to the Flop for 7sb.

Flop: T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG bets, EP raises, I re-raise, UTG calls, EP caps it, we both call. 3 to the Turn for 19sb (9.5bb).

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

UTG checks, EP bets, I raise, UTG cold-calls, EP re-raises, I fold.

-Brian

[george w of poker]

hey brian,

sorry to hear about your losing streak. not a good sign if you're behind after 13,000, but its also really odd to be a consistent 3/6 player and not at least win something at 5/10.

it may just be me but, in hand 1, from you opponents perspective it looks like you could be betting high card ace. i would probobly raise in this position with any queen, possibly a flush draw depending on my read on you.

hand 2: looks good

[Inthacup]

I can't say whether you're an overall winner at 5-10 or not. However, if you're in the midst of a large downsing, it's natural to second guess your abilites. Consider how much the -125BB is affecting your stats. Honestly, this is why you need about 3-4x as many hands to start drawing any meaningful conclusions.



I am dealt Q J in the SB... I raise.


Why? I'd be happy that no one raised before me and just complete.


Flop: You've represented a monster by the PF raise from the SB. Why check now? Do you think the 7 7 5 rainbow hit anyone? Considering that you raised, you should lead out the flop.


Turn: I'd bet too. EP calling doesn't really mean anything, but this:

Most players would not raise a Flush draw on the Turn here, or raise with a Queen without a good kicker.

confuses me. Do you think he's the kind of player that would limp in with AQ or KQ then raise the turn with it? You've put yourself in a difficult situation by the way you played it on the earlier streets. If you're going to play this hand "bet if I hit, check if I don't" then why raise preflop? By this point, you're playing a real guessing game. Are you ahead on the turn? I don't know. How would I play the turn? I can't say. Sorry.


Hand 2:

Ugggh.

Preflop is good. Flop is good. When he caps, I'm starting to think: What's he limping UTG with? A middle pair is certainly an option and 10 10 and 8 8 are realistic possibilities.

Turn: bleh. It sure looks like he's got 10 10 or 8 8, but I hate this whole mentality of raising and folding to a 3-bet. He could have something like 99, JJ, 10 9, A 10(longshot). The point is, you very well could be behind, but I strongly doubt you're drawing dead. I want to see the river(and probably the showdown) with this hand. After his flop cap, I'd be inclined to just call the turn bet.


Cup

[Brian]

Hi inthacup,

Trying to get your posts up so that you can participate in the BOSS? Hahaha! Well, I appreciate your input on the hands. As far as Hand #1 is concerned, something we SS'ers have been doing recently is raising suited broadway from the blinds. Dynasty suggested it to Bob T. long ago, and he has recently convinced GuyOnTilt, myself, and others to start doing it. I would've definitely raised KJs here even before talking with Bob T., but probably would've just completed with QJs.

The raise here instead of completing is simply for value. Without anyone having raised pre-Flop, it is likely that I have the best hand. Sure, every once in awhile you'll run into KJ or something like that, but in most 5/10 games I play in, people limp with all sorts of crap, and the guy who posted his blind probably doesn't have anything. Sometimes I'll bet out on the Flop, but I don't see anything wrong with checking. You're right, by raising from the Blinds I have represented a "monster". So since I completely whiffed on the Flop, and I did not feel I was likely to take it down there, I decided to check and see if I could get a free card. And I did. That's another reason to raise hands like these from the Blinds - you often get a 4 card Flop.

The person who raised me was new to the table and was posting his blind in MP, so I had no reads on him. Would he have raised with AQ there? Maybe, probably. But what hands would he have on the Turn that I am ahead of? I had no idea. I think generally when someone is new to the table and you get in a confrontation like this, it's best to just let them have it, especially when theres another player in the pot who seems content to call him down.

In hand #2, I am not sure what the best course of action is on the Turn, so that's why I posted it here. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Brian

[lunchmeat]

hey Brian,

Here's what I would do.

Hand 1: I don't like raising much from the small blind with hands like this because on later streets the sb is in poor position. Also, against typical Party players a pre-flop raise and a bet on the flop will rarely take down the pot. So I say call, and after calling I'd check the flop...

I think the turn is a very difficult decision because there are a lot of factors at play. The raiser posted a blind, so it's really hard to read his hand. He could easily hold a third 7, and I also think most players would slow play 3 of a kind in this situation... nevertheless, I don't think folding is the best option. I generally find that players who don't wait for the big blind to post are either clueless or maniacs with zero paitence, so I think you want to play on against these guys. I also don't like raising in this situation because you aren't likely to get the calling station or the blind poster to fold a better hand than yours (or any hand for that matter). In late position you can often raise the turn and check it down on the river, but you don't have that luxury in EP. So, I really think your best option is to call the turn and check/call the river. Calling is often bad mouthed by poker players (and for good reason), but I like it here because the pot is pretty big and there is still a reasonable chance that you hold the best hand.

Hand 2: I think this is another calling situation. KK is just too good to fold against this board. Even though the betting on the flop was capped, the only hand that I think EP could have that could beat you is 88 or maybe 22(as he would have probably raised AA or TT pre-flop). The chances of this seem too small to make me want to fold.

When the 7 falls on the turn, EP is likely to keep jamming, so I'd just call him down unless I'm certain my hand is best. If UTG goes for a check/raise, then a fold is in order.

People will probably think I'm a huge calling station after reading this post. But I think your folds were too tight here, and raising doesn't seem to accomplish much either in these situations. I'd be interested to know the results of these hands...