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View Full Version : Three hands can win this


03-27-2002, 02:25 AM
I like to play with myself.

um, wait a second.

OK, sometimes, when I'm trying to distract myself from real work I'll deal out 10 hands of hold-em and play it as it I'm every individual player trying to play optimally. It's actually taught me quite a bit about different scenarios and strategies. Then again, I'm still limited to what *I* might do in these situations, not what my opponents would do.

Anyway, an interesting hand came up earlier this evening. Three fold to Ad4d. "He" is the first in with a call. Two more fold to another A4 suited. He calls as well. Two more call in late position and J6 unsuited checks the BB.


Flop comes down AsQsJd.


I had the BB bet here, just for the heck of it. And why not, huh? What a terrific flop to be betting into a field with. Next up is the A4 with the backdoor flush. He raises.

Now it gets interesting. The other A4 suited, who is tied for the lead, pretty much has to fold here. He has to assume he's outkicked.


Folded to the BB who calls, intending to fold on the turn if nothing hits. The 6 hits, he checkraises and wins the pot.


What's further interesting about this hand is that if the second A4 suited had raised to isolate the A4 limper pre-flop, the J6 wouldn't have called. It wouldn't have been raised out of the pot on the flop and it might have been able to take down the whole thing by representing a bigger ace.


Perhaps the first A4 doesn't raise on the flop but the second one does. Will the J6 stay in knowing that 1) there are now two other people in the hand and both could be beating him and 2) he won't be closing out the betting and there could be a check raise behind him?


I just found the entire situation interesting. Anyone can win this hand but it depends on how everyone decides to play. Every move is important.

03-28-2002, 01:26 PM
J6 could bet to try to win the pot, but how can he stay in once he gets raised? (in the first scenario, facing only one raise) After the raise there's only 6.5 bets in the pot. Assuming 6 outs, it's 7 to 1 against catching. And some of the outs may be tainted, since the flop is two toned. Let alone the fact you may be drawing dead. This isn't a hand J6 wants to be in.


The second scenario, a raiser and an overcaller, is even worse. No way J6 can call here. Even if he gets a card he wants, he can still lose, because:

a) he could be drawing dead already

b) the card he wants could make someone a flush

c) he could lose to a redraw


Often leading out when you get a piece of the flop in a solid game with only 1 or 2 opponents is a good idea, but with this flop it's hard to imagine it missing both guys. So maybe J6 checking and folding would be more circumspect.


The 2 A4's brings out an interesting point. With 2 equal hands, the aggressor will often win.


You're right about this being an interesting hand with a lot of possibilities.

03-28-2002, 02:48 PM
I'm still debating on whether J6 was right to call in the original scenario. Suppose A4 was just being aggressive and was really on a good draw? Say...10s9s? Then J6 is a favorite heads up.


But I will agree that leading out with bottom pair on a flop like this is terrible.

03-28-2002, 03:01 PM
This is a classic situation where you are either a slight favorite or a big dog. These situations should be avoided.