My first NL post

[Gomez22]

I've played in maybe 20 NL tourneys, but never in a ring game, and thought it might be good poractice to "learn" how to play NL hold em. This hand comes from Stars .01/.02 table, I figure since I'm just starting to mess around with NL, I might as well start at the bottom, right?

I'm CO with Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif

UTG calls $.02, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, I raise to $.10, button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

FLOP($.53): 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB bets $.02, UTG folds, MP2 calls, I raise to $.20, button folds, BB calls, MP2 folds.

TURN($.95): 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB checks, I check

RIVER($.95): A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, I check.

Can anyone give me some advice on this hand? Did I play it well? Or shoudl I have bet on the river, and if so, why???

[bunky9590]

Man if some money wasnt lost there. Bet bet bet!!!! should have wither gone broke or doubled through there.

[Gomez22]

Yeah... I figure I lost bunches of cash here, but I know alot of players trap in NL, and like I just said, this is my first session ever playing NL ring games...... Oh, well... that's the purpose of the posts, I guess... to learn how to play the game.

[_And1_]

in my humble opinion, playing at that low limit could be compared to playchips... Dont know if you learn much more than the basics, playing SnG or Tourney would be better as there might be more value in the chips than in a cent or two... thou tourney/SnG NL tables is quite a diffrent game

Most would never calculate odds nor try to read, less even put that much value in your preflop bet at 10 cents...

[Paul2432]

Preflop I would raise a little more, probably to $0.15, hoping to win it right there, or at least knock a few more opponents out.

Likewise on the flop, raise the size of the pot (~$0.55). BTW, the stack sizes of relavent players are really necessary to give proper advice.

On the turn I think your check is good, but mainly to induce a bluff on the river. Once your opponent checks the river, I think you have a good value bet here. Perhaps one half to two thirds the size of the pot.

BTW, I disagree with the poster who said these games hold no instuctional value. I think the play here is substantially better than the play money games. In fact these games offer the only chance to play truly deep money of 250x the big blind ($5 max buy in). All the other PL/NL games on Stars are only 100x max buy-in.

I agree though that the higher limit PL/NL games will be tougher, both because they are raked and the competition is tougher.

Paul

[Gomez22]

Again, stack sizes with copy of hand below.....

UTG had $.45
UTG+1 had $.70
MP2 had $8.48
I had $1.79
Button had $6.50
BB had $1.28

I'm CO with Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif

UTG calls $.02, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, I raise to $.10, button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

FLOP($.53): 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB bets $.02, UTG folds, MP2 calls, I raise to $.20, button folds, BB calls, MP2 folds.

TURN($.95): 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB checks, I check

RIVER($.95): A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, I check.

Can anyone give me some advice on this hand? Did I play it well? Or shoudl I have bet on the river, and if so, why???

[Guy McSucker]

You should only bet the river if you think you will get called by a worse hand, or if you can get a better hand to fold.

It's pretty clear that no better hand will fold here. Well, the king flush might fold if you bet all-in, but it's pretty unlikely in the low limits; and by this I mean everything up to 50c-$1 NL.

Will a worse hand call? Maybe. Someone with the nine or ten of clubs might call a small bet. The trouble with making a small bet, though, is that you might get check-raised, and then you will hate yourself for having bet.

In my opinion, betting the river here is not a great move, so I like your check.

Guy.

[crockpot]

i like to bet the turn and fold if i'm raised. this forces anyone with a set or two pair to pay to draw, and if you are raised you can be pretty sure you're drawing dead, so you don't have to make a guess on the river, and you probably avoid getting bluffed out.

[crockpot]

quick comments on the posts in this thread...

how is this a hand that you should have either gone broke or doubled up with? you should not be calling an all-in bet on the turn or river, or making one yourself, with this board.

as for an SNG being more instructive than this game...again, i can't agree. once the SNGs get down to about six players, they are totally dominated by shorthanded poker and tournament skills, and you barely learn any no-limit skills at all because the blinds are so high. though the players in the .01/.02 NL games are considerably looser than in higher limits, they still give you a good idea of the basic skills needed to play higher. however, once you have the bankroll to play the $25 tables or higher, you should definitely move up, because you can only learn so much at a table where people will call with anything.

[Paul2432]

Crockpot,

In what situations would you check the turn to induce a bluff on the river? I feel this hand is a good candidate for such a play because it minimizes the loss when behind. The free card is a problem, but on the betting I think two pair or a set is an unlikely opponent holding. A lot of bad players don't seem to understand betting on the river, in that they bet because there hand is good and the opponent has shown weakness. They do not consider that the bet will only be called when beaten. Inducing bluffs has been a very profitable play for me.

Intersested in hearing your thoughts.

Paul

[crockpot]

if i'm against a player who will bet small on the river regardless of whether he is bluffing or has the nut flush, or someone who bluffs way more often than he should, inducing a bluff is best. but it is hard to get a read like this on online players since you won't be sitting with them for long, and half the time their river bets go uncalled so you don't know what they had.

inducing a bluff is a fine play here, but i don't believe it minimizes the losses when behind; betting fairly small on the turn and folding to a raise does. most players will bet big on the river here if they bet at all.