JJ 40-80 hand

[mike l.]

i have JJ utg and raise. mp, cutoff (somewhat loose), and button (loose) cold call. bb calls. 5 of us.

the flop is 994 rainbow. i bet and cutoff and button call. i bet the turn dark.

turn is 9. cutoff calls, button folds. i bet the river dark.

the river is a 5. cutoff raises. i call.

comments?

[Ulysses]

Screw it. Re-raise him one time. It's hard to get four of a kind.

[DanZ]

since you seem to like to act before the cards come (perhaps it less confusing), I will say you pick a great spot for it.

Unfortunately, you chose the wrong action. This is a fine place to check in the dark. If you are raised, you've got a real probelm. If you check , he will bet any pair (usually) so you call. If he has no pair, he will bluff more than he calls your bet. Simple.

Dan Z.

[AJo Go All In]

i disagree with this assessment.

checking is terrible. any smaller pair will at least call if you bet. if you check, opponent may check behind and try to get the river as cheaply as possible. opponent could easily have overcards and a free card is disastrous.

also, if you bet dark, he may raise you with nothing, trying to move you off your "obvious ace-king".. or on the river, with any full house.

3-betting the river and folding to a 4-bet is so theoretically perfect for this situation. but i don't know if i'll ever be able to pull that one off.

[Vehn]

how about you like actually watch the cards and see what comes off and pretend like it matters ?

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
3-betting the river and folding to a 4-bet is so theoretically perfect for this situation. but i don't know if i'll ever be able to pull that one off.

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds sweet on paper, doesn't it?

[tpir90036]

this is similar to something i was asking about over in the SS forum. how often do you super awesome winning players actually make a play like 3-betting and folding to a 4-bet? is it theoretical? would you ever fold to being check-raised on the flop? are these types of laydowns saved for the highest level of poker zen? are they even correct?

just curious as i actually thought about folding to a check-raise on the flop today....but i didn't...i was annoyed by the thought of passive players seeing me make this laydown and trying to check-raising me later on.

-tpir

[Vehn]

I raise the turn and fold to a 3 bet at least once every 10 hours. I raise the river and fold to a 3 bet about once every 20 hours. I bet the river, get raised, reraise, and fold to a 4-bet about once every 50 hours. Its not hard to do when you play against a bunch of passive, mindless, straightforward drones who are not spending any amount of effort to try and figure out what your hand is.

[tpir90036]

you are check-raised on the flop and don't have the odds to spike on the turn. why call the check-raise? i called it though and i think i would if it happened again. in an effort to not be weak am i just being dumb?

[elysium]

hi mike
it looks good. a reraise on the river won't accomplish anything. he would only fold. he does think that he has you beaten until you call. it looks like AJ or AQ.