I need serious help Part 2

[Tilt-a-Whirl]

Late Postion Hands These hands are the 1 and 2 off the button, not the button itself. This is every hand I played in these positions for this set of 100 (8 total hands).

I'm sure some will say I'm not aggressive enough, and while not a good excuse, I'm gun shy having lost 150 BB's the last week.

Each hand is worded in order relative to the betting, so you can tell whats happening before or after me.

If this format is too many hands, just let me know, and I'll change it. But when losing like I have been, I thought a complete picture would be more benfitial than a hand or two.




Hand #1 +4.5BB

[ Jc, Jh ] - 2 limps, I raise, 2 calls
[ Js, 3s, Ah ] - checked to me, I check (bad slow play, but tight table I fear will fold. took a risk with 2 suited cards)
[ Tc ] - Bet, I call and the other call (total mess up here not raising)
[ 8h ] - Checked to me, I bet, everyone folds

Hand #2 -.5 BB

[ 3s, 3h ] - I limp, SB calls
[ Td, Ac, Kh ] bet, I fold

Hand #3 +2.25 BB
[ Kc, Qh ] - 1 limper, I raise, called
[ Ks, Kh, 7s ] - I bet, called
[ 3h ] - I bet, he folded

Hand #4 +2 BB

[ Js, Qc ] fold to me, I call, SB calls
[ 4s, 8c, 3c ] bet to me, I call
[ 5c ] Bet to me, I call
[ Kh ] bet to me, I fold

(Note to myself: take control or fold)

Hand #5 +1.75 BB

[ Tc, Qs ] limp, I limp, button limps
[ Qh, 7h, 2d ] check around (what was I doing here?!?!)
[ 3h ] I bet, everyone folds

Hand #6 +5 BB

[ Ad, As ] Folds, Raise, I call, BB calls
[ 8h, Kh, Td ] bet, I raise, fold, call
[ Ks ] I bet, call
[ 5s ] I bet, call

Win with AA


Hand #7 +5.75 BB

[ Jh, Kd ] 5 limpers
[ 4s, Jd, Kh ] check, check, I bet, fold, raised, I reraise, call
[ 7c ] I bet, call
[ 5c ] I bet, call

I win with KKJJ


Hand #8 -2.5 BB

[ As, Qc ] 2 limpers, I raise, BB calls, limpers call
[ 6s, 3d, Jh ] checked to me, I bet, 3 calls and 1 fold
[ Tc ] bet to me, I fold

[pudley4]

1 - Bet the flop, raise the turn.

2 - Raise or fold preflop.

3 - Good.

4 - Raise or fold preflop. Raise the flop.

5 - Raise or fold preflop. Bet the flop.

6 - 3bet preflop.

7 - I don't like KJo with this many limpers, but I'm a little too tight with big unsuited cards. After the flop is perfect

8 - If you think your pair outs (A's and Q's) are no good because the bettor has 2pr/set, then it's a good fold.

[Brian]

Hi Tilt,

I understand why you tilt so much now. You played almost every one of these hands poorly. You need to invest in some poker books.

-Brian

[Tilt-a-Whirl]

thanks pudley,

You bring up a good point. Should I (for the most part) always raise with small pairs? Since only a 3 helps, and when it comes I have a big hand, wouldn't I want to see the flop cheap, with lots of callers? Or do you think the aggressivness will buy enough pots when I don't get the set to make up for it?

[Louie Landale]

[1] Its not just the 2-flush, its the VERY likely gut draws out against you when 2 big cards hit. Do not slow play. Its unlikely someone will make a bad 2nd best hand on the turn.

[2] Probably raise if 1st one in. You aren't getting the right odds to snag a set against 2 players.

[3] IF you are going to slow-play one, this is the one. However, anybody who can put 2 neurons together will probably figure it out.

[4] Raising QJ when there is no caller is better than raising KQ when there is one caller. Pretty routine raise. Then you called twice? What are you thinking? This is not a "take control of fold" situation. This is a "started-bad-got-worse" situation.

[5] Checking makes as much sense as going to Las Vegas and eating at Denny's.

[6] I guess this is consistent with the other hands you did NOT bet but should have.

[7] Fine. But you should be tempted to just call the check-raise, hehehe, figuring to raise the turn. This will help disguise your other weak bets on the flop, AND disguise the times you improve or steal on the turn. 3-bet is good if you fear he'll check the turn.

[8] Your flop bet Looks too suspicious considering all those other hands you checked for no particular reason. Now, had you BET those other hands your semi-steal here would have a lot more weight.

You are playing far too "tricky". THAT's why you are losing.

- Louie

[Tilt-a-Whirl]

Thanks louie for the response. I do appreciate your comments and critique. It is very worthwhile.

Brian, thanks for repsonding. But why waste yours and my time?

[Tilt-a-Whirl]

Not as an excuse, but more of a setup. I am on a 5 day losing streak (Brian insert your comment here) /images/graemlins/wink.gifand I become passive after getting beat up, becuse I'm sick of building the pot, just to have someone take it with a BS gut shot.

I know, I know, I've got to be consistant and the math will work itself out.

[MaxPower]

Reading these hands made me sick to my stomach.

Hand 1 - Do you realize how much money you lost by playing it this way. You opponents could have a pair of Aces or a flush draw on the flop and they would call your raises and maybe even 3-bet. On the turn, raise again.

Hand 2 - Are you saying everyone folded to you in late position and you just called? Bad boy. You must raise or fold.

Hand 3 - Good hand. Don't even think about giving a free card on the turn.

Hand 4 - You did it again. Unless the blinds are extremely losse, you should raise it up. Given that you just called, give it up on the flop - the pot is tiny.

Hand 5 - You really enjoy giving a free card when there is a flush draw on board - Cut that out.

Hand 6 - Have you considered 3-betting with AA. Try it sometimes.

Hand 7 - So you gave up on slowplaying? Good. I'm not sure about your pre-flop call as it isn't clear what position you are in and who is the button.

Hand 8 - I like this one.

Sorry for the attitude, but some of the errors you are making are so basic that I think you need some tough love.

[CrackerZack]

Your flop pctg you mention in the other post doesn't seem high, 22-26% etc but you are playing passively and semi-loosely in these examples.

Hand 1:
I'd bet the flop, everyone should expect you to, a check looks very suspicious to me and people like to peel. You HAVE to raise the turn.

Hand 2:
Terrible limp, if you're opening and want to play 33, raise it. You're getting no set value. If you raise here you may steal the blinds or win it with a flop bet.

Hand 3:
Why did you limp early with this before but raise now? I like the raise it just seems backwards. Other than that, fine.

Hand 4:
See hand 2 about openraising. Fold on the flop. The pot is tiny and you missed.

Hand 5:
Fold PF, this is cheese. If the limper is terrible, raise him then. HAVE to bet the flop AND the turn.

Hand 6:
I like this play. maybe 3-bet PF, maybe not, but you jumped right out on the flop and grabbed control of the hand. Good one.

Hand 7:
PF is your only decision here. I'd often fold KJo and always raise KJs. If I did play, I'd limp too. Post flop good.

Hand 8:
This is actually a good hand to post. Interesting. I'll assume on the flop there were 2 calls and a fold since you only had 3 opponents after PF action. on the turn there is 7 BBs in the pot. Who bet? one of the limpers? I'm going under the assumption it went check-bet, action on you. There are 8 BBs in the pot and you have a gutshot to the nuts. To draw to that you'll need 10.5 BBs which you obviously don't have but if you think the limper will call you're getting 9-1. Do you think an A or Q will be good ever? This could be very close to a call. With little to go on I'd probably fold but if the limper would bet J9 into me on the turn, I'd definitely call, if he wouldn't bet without 2 pair, I'd definitely fold. The truth is probably somewhere in between. In this situation, knowing its party, I'd probably call unless the limper was a total calling station. If he wasn't and would take a shot at a pot. I'd call.
Double Edit: I'm a moron. good fold in 8. I was counting the flop bets as BBs, they aren't. Pot is too small unless you're positive your 3 ace outs are good and maybe the Q.

Edit: this is very refreshing post. Someone comes, needs help and admits he's losing. Very rare around these parts. Welcome.

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
Not as an excuse, but more of a setup. I am on a 5 day losing streak (Brian insert your comment here) and I become passive after getting beat up, becuse I'm sick of building the pot, just to have someone take it with a BS gut shot.



[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to play passively, don't play. Take a break from it. You shouldn't be going on a five-day losing streak because you're playing passively. Having the discipline to step away when you're not playing properly is extremely important.

Playing passively isn't your only problem (Brian's right; get a book), but you just plain shouldn't play with this sort of mindset.

[ QUOTE ]
I know, I know, I've got to be consistant and the math will work itself out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure you do know. If you did, you wouldn't play the way you did in these hands.

McGee

[CrackerZack]

Nice response. Give him some help on the hands if you think they were played poorly. The AA hand was played well (although playing AA bad is hard) and KJ one was good too after the questionable PF call.

[jt1]

It's folded around to you and you have 33. You raise here to "steal" blinds and if that doesn't work, to represent a big hand against just one opponent. Against one opponent any hand ace high or better is probably the best hand so bet until he raises back and fold once he does that if he isn't a habitual bluffer. If he is a bluffer than I don't know. Head to head against bluffers w/o tptk is a difficult game.

if you have the same hand w/ 2 or more callers than just limp yourself and hope for that set. if it doesn't come, fold. (it might even be a good idea to fold pre-flop here w/ less than say 4 limpers.)

[Styles]

my $0.02, 2 off the button doesn't seem like much but the difference between the cutoff and LMP is a big deal because you are much less likely to end up last or buy the button.

[DarkKnight]

Hand 1: Never be afraid of the table folding take the
money now. Only slowplay when conditions are perfect.
Turn was worse than the flop.

Hand 2: LP NEVER limp first in. MP I almost never limp
first in. You have to raise here.

Hand 3: OK

Hand 4: preFLOP - see Hand 2
post Flop - FOLD FOLD FOLD

Hand 5: preFlop - fold or raise I would fold this.
postFlop - I agree with your analysis.

Hand 6: ReRAISE!!!!!!! After that fine.

Hand 7: Marginal Call preFlop

Hand 8: Fine

[DarkKnight]

Your problem is not that you're too passive, nor that
you're too loose. This isn't tilt.

When so many hands are played so poorly it shows a
lack of fundamental poker skills. You should take some
time off. Buy turbo texas holdem, practice with it
and read read read.

Start with some simpler book like
Winning Low Level Holdem and Holdem Excellence. Stay
away from Sklansky, you aren't ready for it yet.

DK.

[Gomez22]

HAND #1 - Yep... bad time to slowplay. Against 2-3 opponents, I would never slowplay a set, especially with a 4-flush possible. The only time you want to slowplay a set is when the baord is uncocordinated.

HAND#2 - I think I woulda raised here to try and steal the blinds or to get it HU against someone. If it's a weak player, you MIGHT raise on the flop (but it's kinda imperative that you raise PF) to indiacte strength. If called, check/fold without improving.

HAND #3 - Good play.... looks like you were against a flush draw, or someone with A high.

HAND #4 - Either fold or raise here... QJ isn't a good hand, and you either wnat to pick up the blinds, or be done with the hand. Depending on the table, I usually fold this maybe 75% of the time. What exactly were you trying to accomplish calling the flop? You have NO draws, and not very good overcards. The turn card only got you in trouble, as you turned a 4-flush, and were caught chasing.

HAND #5 - Muck this PF unless it's suited. On the flop you HAVE to bet here! At least you bet the turn when no scare cards came, but you shoulda been betting the flop.....

HAND #6 - 3 bet the flop!!!!! You should know this! Always get as much money in the pot when you have the best hand, and what beats Aces PF???? NOTHING!!!!! Jam this pot!!!

HAND #7 - THIS would be a hand to slowplay if there ever was one. At least you 3-bet the flop. You COULD have just called the flop, then raised the turn, with there being no scare card there, and goten a couple more bets out of the hand, but otherwise, I think you did well here. Nice and aggressive.

HAND #8 - I'd say ya gotta fold the turn, also. Good play on this hand.


It look sto me as though you're getting very weak/passive here... you DO NOT want to be that way. Drop down to where the losses don't hurt your BR so bad ans start playing aggressive poker again. When your confidence is back, and your BR stabilizes, move up in limits. Trust me on this - If you play scared you WILL lose. If it's the $$$ that worries you, drop down and LEARN to play aggressively at a limit that your BR can take some swings.

'Mez

[Gomez22]

The AA hand was NOT played well, as he didn't 3-bet the flop..... how can you NOT jam the pot PF with aces???

[Gomez22]

I think HEP by Sklansky might be OK for him..... But I'd definately agree with HEPFAP.... nowhere's near ready for that

'Mez

[Tilt-a-Whirl]

CrackerZack, MaxPower and other thanks for the critic. Obviously I'm playing poorly, thats why I'm losing. The worst thing would have been that my play was good. Becasue that would have left no way out. Now I have hope again once I fix these issues /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I dropped down to 1/2 and think you'd all be happy with my play tonight. Results arent all that great, but difinatey out with the passive stuff.

BTW - I have Lee Jones's book and I've read it. But for some reason, I wasnt using what I read at the table. I've been religous tonight and will post some plays tomorrow for anther critique.

PS I do have HFAP and have read it too. But I'm setting that aside for now and working on Winning Low limit Holdem.

[Tilt-a-Whirl]

Thanks Gomez! Its funny how winning (by shear luck) can make you think you play better than you do....

Also, realize that there was no sugar coating on these plays, Even plays I knew i played crappy. But I was ready for a full out assult. I thank all of you who took your time. even the brash ones. A slap in the face goes along way. hell even my pride is hurt. But it was this, or quit.

/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif