Pre-flop help

[chucklhead]

Howdy,
I have been taking a beating at $1/$2 Planet Poker. In this case a beating is down $100 over two days. The game is tight, but I would like to learn how to beat a tight game. Tight in this case is 30-40% seeing the flop, average pot size is less than $10. I think I might be misplaying preflop a little. Here are ten hands which I am wondering about. For the sake of arguement, the only thing I know about the players are that they are playing in a way that the table has the stats it does.

1) QJo on the button, one early and one middle limper, I call.
2) T9s late middle, one early limper, I call.
3) 44 middle, folded to me, I fold.
4) Q5s small blind, UTG raise and late middle called, I fold.
5) Q9o on the button, 2 early to middle callers, I fold.
6) 56s in cut-off, folded to me, I fold.
7) A5s on the button, early call, middle raise, cut off cold call, I fold.
8) 44 in cut-off, one middle caller, I fold.
9) KJo in middle, 2 early callers, I fold.
10) KTs early, folded to me, I fold.

Any discussion would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Chucklehead

[rayrns]

I have been shown that I lack some pre-flop aggression, so will only comment that you probably should post some hands played start to finish in the small stakes forum. You will get excellent advise on your complete play.

Check some of the hands you did get envolved with and see if you are mostly entering for a call. This has been my problem. It was explained to me that you are better to think raise or fold, most of the time, pre-flop.

(3)I most likely would have called with the pair of 4's. I know I just said above to think raise or fold, but with small pairs I want to get in cheap. Even if the table seems a tad passive. You can make some real nice pots with sets. But if the set doesn't come be prepared to muck the hand.

[crockpot]

all of the folds are pretty clearly correct unless you thought you had a good chance to steal the blinds or steal on the flop with the 44 or 65s, which of course is common in a tight game. the calls are both marginal, but in a tight game you may win it with a flop bet in late position.

the key to beating a tight game is recognizing the situations where a bet or raise will win the pot without a further fight. i suggest (and this may be hazardous to your bankroll for awhile) that you try a lot more bluffing than you normally do. try to analyze why bluffing works better in some situations than others.

[Cubswin]

[ QUOTE ]
i suggest (and this may be hazardous to your bankroll for awhile) that you try a lot more bluffing than you normally do. try to analyze why bluffing works better in some situations than others.

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great idea....just be sure you do this at my table /images/graemlins/grin.gif

cubswin

[chucklhead]

Thanks as always Crockpot,

I have decided that when the average pot size is less than it would cost 2 players to go to the showdown, ie that many hands are being won without a showdown, that post flop positional betting gains a whole lot of power. However, I seem to always be caught when I bluff. Perhaps it is because the players I am up against know what hands I am likely to start with, so know that I missed the flop. There is a player in this game constantly winning playing close to 50% of the hands pre-flop. I think he plays very very strong post-flop. He check raises on the turn with bottom pair and an overcard. He'll bet into a preflop raiser on the turn with a draw. Of course he loses occasionnally but wins more than he loses. I have only read Jones, who doesn't address tight games at all, and TOP. I have just received my copy of HPFAP so maybe that will be able to help me with beating this game.

Thanks again,
Chucklehead

[HUSKER'66]

I agree with all of the moves (given the limited info provided) except no 1:

[ QUOTE ]
QJo on the button, one early and one middle limper, I call

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Consider a raise. With two limpers and a tight table, use your position to your advantage. If you get a favorable flop, you can continue to play hard. If the flop misses you completely and the previous limpers show agression you have an easy fold. With a loose table, you typically want to tighten your opening requirements, with a tight table just the opposite. (play a broader range of hands-this does not mean Q4o or K9o....)and use your position in relation to the blinds to your full advantage. Good luck, play well.

[colgin]

A few things:

1) While not loosey goosey, 35%-40% seeing the flop is not terribly tight IMO (although the examples you give make the tables seem kind of tight).

2) Your pre-flop play sounds pretty good. It does not at all sound like you are leaking chips through too-loose pre-flop play.

3) I find that at $1/2, it is hard to steal the blinds even at tight tables (30% or less). I think for the extra $1 the big blind often does not want to give in to what he may see as an obvious steal attempt. I am not saying not to give it a try here and there, I just would not expect all that much. Better might be a raise from middle to late position with a hand you would otherwise limp with in an effort to get the button; if you get the blinds also, then great.

[RydenStoompala]

1) JQ is dangerous because cards that help you make others big straights or better pairs (kicker trouble). Play agressively into the flop and do not draw into trouble.
2) t,9 you either flop something great or leave immediately, and if it's great (especially the high-end of a straight) then bet agressively. Not a good starting hand.
3) nYou can call 4-4 and see if they let you in for a bet. If you hit a set, then you're in. Low limit hold'em, any pair is better than what most will play.
4)Good fold. It's crap.
5)Depends, but usually a good one to punt.
6) middle suited connectors love late position and lots of players, usually 3-4 callers.
7) A-little card suited is what you play when you're drunk. Flush draws are fun once in a while but this is a crap starting hand. Good fold.
8) Nope. play it for a bet, leave depending on flop.
9) It's not an easy hand to play but you would have if you hand't been getting killed. Raise.
10) a horrible early-position hand. Good fold.

Read Lee Jones book and keep plugging. Don't call as many starting hands as you raise, keeping folding the cheese and you can play at tight tables. It's the loose psychos who will get to you, not the good players.

[Piers]

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QJo on the button, one early and one middle limper, I call.

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Agreed. You have position to get you out of trouble.

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T9s late middle, one early limper, I call.

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Marginal, I think I fold. But might call or raise sometimes.

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44 middle, folded to me, I fold.

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Agree. In a tight game you see to many flops three handed. Just the wrong number.

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Q5s small blind, UTG raise and late middle called, I fold.

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Easy fold.

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Q9o on the button, 2 early to middle callers, I fold.

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Agree. If the limpers were later maybe call or raise would be better.

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56s in cut-off, folded to me, I fold.

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Agreed, I just don’t think 56s is good enough. Although might raise with 76s.

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A5s on the button, early call, middle raise, cut off cold call, I fold.

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Don’t call raises with weak aces.

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44 in cut-off, one middle caller, I fold.

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Agreed. Looks like a three or four handed pot.

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KJo in middle, 2 early callers, I fold.

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Could play this. Be careful after the flop. Fold not that bad.

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KTs early, folded to me, I fold.

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I would raise. If you get reraised your in trouble, just hope it does not happen. Very marginal, need to outplay opponents post flop otherwise fold.